Touchy/Grumpy baby. So hard to read....

[rinajack]

Hi guys

As Hughs A times have slowly extended, it has become quite apparent (and I reconfirmed by redoing the personality quiz) that he is touchy/grumpy.

He wakes I feed him (not always easy to do, sometimes he is touchy about it, sometimes grumpy). He is BF.  Then I put him down to play on his mat a bit which he LOVES.  for about 15 mins. Then he starts to squawk.  Change of scenery/activity does not help. He only wants to be held, preferably by me, preferably while standing, and better yet whilst wearing the moby wrap. He is not tired at that time, if I try for a nap then, I fight him for AGES and he gets hysterical.  He is OK in my arms, but still not a cooing smiling baby iykwim.

I believe he is ready for a nap at somewhere between 1.5-2 hours depending on the day, the last nap etc etc etc.

So, I just don't know what I can do to read him better - if he is constantly cranky, how can I work out when he is tired? When I do get the timing right, he goes down with no fuss, and does a decent nap.  Right now we have loads of shorter naps, but I think it is the timing that is the issue there, and I don't know how to get that right. I am not trying to extend naps, he is only cranky if I try to make him go back to sleep otherwise the pattern is as I described above.

His nights are good, he has last feed at about 6, usually only 1 night feed, occasionally 2, and dpending on the timing of that feed gets up for the day between 6 and 8. No non-feed NW.

TIA, I hope someone can give me some ideas here.

[Grace's Mom]

Hey Rina...

I don't really know much about grumpy/touchy babies and Grace is all spirit, like Zara,, but was wondering....when he goes down at the 1.5-2 hour mark how are his naps vs. when he goes down say at the 1.25-1.5 hour mark? 

How old is he now? 

As I am sure you already know....30 minute naps usually mean they are over tired and 45 minute naps usually mean they are in need of more A time.  When you say he has some short naps...what are the average lengths of those?

Thanks Rina.  How is Zara doing with having a new baby around? 

-Melissa

[rinajack]

Hi Mel!

Thanks for posting.  Zara is doing really well, we have had issues, unrelated to hugh and all about her spirit and independance but she is doing wonderfully.

Hugh is just over 12.5 weeks old, he will be 3 months in a week.

Hughs short naps are 45.  Haven't had any shorter than that unless I woke him for some reason, like transferring, but that is rare. And when I do get long naps, it is either after a long A time, like 2 hours, or after he has had several short naps, and is in need of a catchup nap LOL.

If I try at 1.25-1.5 he cries as soon as we walk in his room, really cries as soon as he sees the cot, and has to be constantly resettled until he gets to 1.75-2hrs.  Unless like I said he is working off a couple of short naps already that day.

Today for example

1:20am feed, back to sleep straight after feed
6ish feed
8ish Nap 45 mins
a bit before 9, feed
a bit before 11 nap 45 mins
12:40 feed
1:40ish nap (I put him down before this and he stayed awake til now, but he did seem tired...he is only about 20 mins into this nap, so its' length remains to be seen.

So none of his naps seem OT, and he certainly doesn't seem Ot when you look at his night sleep.

[Grace's Mom]

Gosh, I know it's early in regards to averages, but it seems like he may be in need of moving to a longer A time.  I would go for it for a few days, monitoring closely of course so not to get OT, and see how he does.  If after a few days naps don't lengthen and he starts getting OT then adjust accordingly. 

Of course, others with experience with grumpy/touchy babies may have some much better advice than I.   

Have you checked out the support thread for touchy/grumpy babies?

Hope this gives some reassurance in regards to just going for it, if nothing else.   

Have a great night Rina.

Melissa

[rinajack]

Thanks Mel.  I am scared to go for longer A time, becuase he makes me hold him for almost all of his A time . But it wouldn't suprise me, Zara is and has always been way below average on her sleep needs.

[Grace's Mom]

Let me know how it goes Rina.    Are there some others things you can do to distract him....go on a walk, swing, etc.?  I am sure you have tried all of those.  Does he like it when Zara plays with him....maybe too young yet, huh?

[Grace's Mom]

Makes sense  ...thanks for posting Stacy.
Not having a grumpy/touchy baby I wasn't 100% sure.

Rina, what do you think?

-Melissa

[rinajack]

I can't disgree.  I have no idea when he is tired because he cries most of the time unless I hold him.

Having said that, today he did a 2 hr 10 A time, a 45 min nap, another 2hr 10 A time, 45 min nap, then a short A time and now a longer nap (he is still asleep been about an hour).  He did similar yesterday.  Today his A times were not because I waited to put him down but because he just wouldn't sleep any sooner and he was FURIOUS, I could not calm him even in my arms, ended up calming him by leaving the room and then having to try again later.

He is not cranky for the first hour after waking, but absolutely will NOT go to sleep at that point when he does get cranky - but he is very very happy if he spends the next hour in my arms, there is not a peep out of him when he gets what he wants (me). And he doesn't try to feed from me or try to sleep on me, if I lay him down to sleep on me he gets mad then also, not only when he sees his cot.  He just wants to be upright most of the time. 

Which makes me think maybe silent reflux, but if he had that surely he wouldn't sleep well at all, and he is only feeding once at night - but he is very hard to settle back to sleep after that feed...so maybe

honestly though, I have little clue. I don't even know what else to look for for tiredness, he doesn't yawn, no red eyes (unless actually crying), movement doesnt change that I can tell...and only cranky if put down.

Any ideas?

[rinajack]

LOL stacy I agree there comes a point where you can't just keep adding more.

Right now I don't feel I have the patience to go much beyond 2 hours anyway, because I have to hold him for so much of it!

I think I will stick with that, he does seem to do a longer nap in the afternoon (coinciding with Zara napping) most days, so maybe I will just persevere as long as he is doing that LOL.  And as long as his nights are ok. As for putting down earlier, at this stage, after how today went, I dont' think I will unless he gives me a reason...today was honestly the loudest I have ever heard him cry!

An interesting note - he feeds mostly 3 hourly.  Could it be that I am not getting the A time wrong, but that he isn't ready for 4 hour feeding???

[*Mona*]

hi Rina

I too have no experience with touchy/grumpy but I too think it's not the problem of too short A times but of Hugh being OT.
he's feeding great from what I can see and his night are really good to so probably he's not THAT overtired yet. so if you can cope with him not being axactly a happy puppy all the time, I wouldn't change your routine too much.
45minutes naps are not bad especially that he's having that one longer nap too.

I can relate to one thing though- Maja was just the same when I tried to put her down for a nap when she didn't want it- screaming her head of. and you know, I think it was my problem [I wanted her to sleep] not hers [she wasn't tired enough yet]. really stubborn and strongminded even as a baby.

so... good luck and don't worry, it's not bad

[*Mona*]

oh and re his feeding times- he's breastfed so it may take him even longer before he's ready for feeding every 4 hrs. don't worry. Maja's A times were closer to 4hrs routine much sooner than her feeding times were.

[rinajack]

Thanks Monika.

I put him down for bed tonight, and he was perfect, not a single sound out of him, yet he was wide awake.  So, I am sure it is about timing, and I think you are all right, I am going to stick wtih approx 2 hours (unless he gives me some reason to put him down sooner (I often try when I know Zara is about to nap ).

Thanks. 

As for the needing to be held alot, maybe he will just grow out of that?   Honestly, if he was my first, it would be wonderful, but it makes caring for Zara a bit difficult LOL.

[rinajack]

Thanks guys!

[Grace's Mom]

 

You are doing a wonderful job Rina! 

-Mel

[rinajack]

Something interesting.

Hugh fed at 6:15 then went to bed by about 6:40pm last night, no issues at all. Woke at 3:40am to feed. 

I collected him from his cot, took him to my room as always to feed him, since he is sharing a room with Zara.  He stays in with us from then, because he is hard to settle back to sleep, and his feed times are too close to Zara's wakeup times, if she wakes she won't go back to sleep.

Anyway, all this time I have thought wind etc for why he won't go back to sleep because he grunts and groans and carries on.  In the last couple of days I noticed at naps that when he was really fighting it, he would lift his head (tummy sleeper) and when he was ed off at being put down, but actually tired, he would cry but nuzzle into the mattress. 

This morning after his night feed, he  was doign the head lifting thing and grunting and stuff...he just didn't want to go to sleep.  He wasn't crying or anything, but probably would have if we put him in his cot. at 5am when Dh had to get ready for work I gave up cause I was getting very very frustrated....took him out of the room and he did his longest stretch EVER out of my arms.  At 2 hrs awake I realised it was 2 hrs already (was enjoying him playing on his own LOL) and got him down at 2 hrs 5 - and he drifted off HAPPILY!

Will let you know how that works out in terms of nap length! He did take a really good feed too (I made sure of it, was making sure that hunger wasn't preventing him going back to sleep since I tend to rush the night feeds a bit), so I don't think hunger will wake him.....