12 week old with short naps.

[Vieira]

Hi all,
My lo is 12 weeks old and although things are getting better I also have a short napper.  He doesn't wake up happy from his naps, he usually wakes up crying.  I have tried to make nap time the same routine as bedtime, here's a brief schedule.  Would love some ideas on how to extend naps.

wakes around 7:00 am for first feed
7:30-8:30 or 9:00 A time (I know it seems alot and that's really where I'm confused)
9:00-9:40 Sleep
9:40-10:00 A time becusae I don't know what else to do
10:00 feed
and I start all over again.
He'll sleep in my arms for 2 hours but that is not something I want to get into doing.
Sometimes he seems tired and fussy an hour after eating but if I put him down he'll sleep for that 30 or 40 minutes and then I try to keep him happy for an hour and a half after he wakes and until his next feed.
Also, what are some good winding down activities before nap time?
Sorry if I babbled but as many of you with short nappers know by mid day the brain isn't quite there.
Thanks,
Tina

[MJMom]

his A time sounds too long.  Should be about 1 hr - 1.5 at that age.  Closer to the 1 hr mark.  Especially that first nap.  The first nap is often an extension of night sleep and is the same REM quality, so that A time is best kept low key.  The morning nap is the first one that develops and can set the stage for the rest of the day.

have you tried pt/sh to extend the naps?

here are a couple of links that may help
Teaching sleep to Newborns and Young Infants
Teaching Sleep to Babies of 3-5 months

HTH!

[Vieira]

 
Thank you for starting this thread.  I have a question about nap length once I get him down the second time do I wake him to keep him on his feeding schedule.  If I don't he may sleep for another 2 hours not including the first 30-40 minutes.  I just fear it may cause him to not sleep at night.  I have already started to use the last 20-30 minutes of activity time to do low key activities such as just walking around or placing him in his crib to sing or talk to him.  Even though he slept for a bit on the way to his doctors appointment when we got back he was awake and I started the wind down with him it took a bit but he has been sleeping for an hour and fifteen minutes.  I'm getting hopeful.  Thank you for the great resources.

Tina

[MJMom]

Hello,

I had a few questions in hopes of someone being able to help.  I have a three month old lo and he has always been a short napper.  I've been struggling with it for quite some time.  People have been telling me that some kids just don't take long naps.  This would be find if Carter didn't wake up crying and grumpy because he usually has an hour to an hour and a half before he has to eat again.  He is swaddled and usually can be put straight into the crib for a nap.  I have read other posts and was wondering if he was over stimulated.  Yesterday I tried to take him upto his room about a half hour before nap time to play quietly in his crib and then walk around with him.  He went down without a problem but of course was up about forty minutes I turned him on his side to shh pat him back to sleep which took about 30 minutes and then had to wake him 20 minutes later to eat.  The next time I followed the same wind down and then anticipated his wake, to see why he was wakeing up.  There were no jolts, no wet diaper, he slowly opened his eyes and started to cry.  I shh patted him back to sleep which took only 10 minutes and then had to wake him forty minutes to eat.  Should I keep up with this strategy, I'm just afraid I'm confusing him by putting him back to bed and then waking him 30-40 minutes later for his three hour feed.  Here is a rough outline of his schedule

Wake for 1st feed between 5 and 7am
Usually straight back to bed
Second feed at 10:00 am
A time from 10:30-11:30
S time from 11:30-12:00
Up again @ 12:00 high maintenance until next feed at 1
Third feed at 1:00
A time from 1:30-2:30
S time from 2:30-3:00
Up again at 3:00 high maintenance until next feed at 4:00pm
Fourth feed at 4:00
A time from 4:30-5:30
S time from 5:30-6:00
Up again at 6:00 high maintenance until next feed at 7:00pm
Fifth feed at 7:00
A time from 7:30-8:30
S time 8:30 -9:00
9:00 bath time and last bottle
Night sleep with next feed between 5:00-7:00 am

I think I have a spirited little boy, he is physically active and very alert, he would rather look all around than look at my face.  I take no offence to that.

Any suggestions would be great.

Carter's mom
Tina

There is one book I read re: sleep patterns and when sleep develops among children.  Your issue re: short naps is somewhat universal.  Many kids can be taught how to take longer naps.  There are also developmental timelines when the naps develop into longer naps.  The first nap to develop is the morning nap as it is often an extension of night time sleep.  That develops around 3 months, so about now.  the second one to develop is at 4 months and that is the afternoon nap.  

That being said, you can teach a child to nap longer.  We were able to with our DD so she had good naps.  See the links below.  Also check out the other nap FAQ's.

Just out of curiosity, why did you wake him to feed him?  Was it the 3 hr mark?  I would have just let him go until he naturally woke up.  It may have been longer than the 3 hr EASY, but that will help keep him from getting OverTired (OT) or Over Stimulated (OS).  The 3 hr EASY is a guideline, not a rule.  

Generally speaking, based on the routine, he is probably over tired.  His bed time is very late as compared to his wake time.  What time is he up for the day?

Also, at his age, his A times could be as short as 1 hr still including feeding, althogh 1.5 hrs is possible, he'll probably still have a combination of any where between 1-1.5 hrs.

HTH
As for the r

[Vieira]

Hi,

If he wakes for his first feed at 5:00 am he will go back to sleep until 8 or 9 am on his own.  If he wakes at the 6 or 7 am mark he will usually not go to sleep after his feed unless I lie down with him (I know accidental parenting) He usually is really hungry until 10:00 am so he'll usually sleep with me from 7-8 or 7-9 depending.  I realized looking at other peoples schedules that Carter does go to bed late and I'm not really sure why.  Tonight I'm going to bath him at 8:30 and put him in bed at nine and see what happens.  His dad is trying to put him down right now and I am fighting the urge to go help. 
As for why I wake him, it is because I've hit the three hour mark, I guess I'm afraid if he sleeps that much he won't sleep through the night.  Next time I will let him sleep longer and try not to stick so hard to the three hour routine.  Because I have made him a fussy baby and he cries often I really can't decipher one cry from the next and when I look at examples of different cries his don't sound like any of them, but I guess one problem at a time. 
Thanks again,
Tina

[MJMom]

Actually, if he sleeps that late, the late bed time actually corresponds as he is getting about 11.5 hrs of sleep through the night, so you're probably OK there.  (Wish I tried for that!  I don't know what I was thinking about wanting a 7:00 wake up... seemed to make sense at the time...)

Definitely let him try sleeping until he wakes.  It may only be 15-20 minutes longer, but then you haven't disturbed his sleep cycle. 

Keep me posted on how it goes!

[Vieira]

Hi MJMOM,

Last night his schedule was not easy to change so I put him to bed at just after 9:30pm.  Those late sleeps happen only once in a while.  This morning he woke at 3 am (put soother in and he fell back asleep), he woke at 4 am (did the same thing), then he woke at 5:00 and my husband fed him and he fell back asleep around 6am.  He slept only until 7 and then I took him in bed with me where he slept until 8:30.  Not a very good night.  I just spent 40 minutes up in his room to put him back to bed after he woke from his forty minute nap.  I'm a high school teacher and I thought that was stressful, until I tried to start putting him back down to bed.  At first I just placed my hand with some pressure on his arm as he sleeps on his back, he seemed to be drifting off after 20 minutes and then he was wide awake and crying so I rolled him on his side and shh/patted him for another 20 minutes and he finally fell asleep again.  I won't be waking him again and tongiht my husband and I are going to try for an 8:30 bath and bed time.  Well seeing that I may have some time to myself I guess I'll have a cup of tea. 

Thanks,
Tina

[MJMom]

How is it going?

[Vieira]

Hi,

It's not going well.  Today was a particulary crappy day.  We would not fall back asleep after any of his naps.  I took him for a walk outside in my carrier because it snowed alot today.  Of course he fell asleep but th eminute I put him down he's awake.  I've tried alot and don't know what to do.  Yesterday at my sisters house he slept for a half hour ans then woke.  I went in and rubbed his forhead and he went back to sleep for over an hour.  He even went down once he woke from his evening nap.  But that was short lived.  I tried the same strategies today and he just fought and cried for an hour.  That was enough to make me crazy.  I only tried to get him to fall back asleep for 2 out of 3 naps because it's just too stressful.  Let alone the fact that he thinks 5:00 am is morning.  I did wake to sleep and it worked on the first night but not last night.  I'm going to try once more tonight.  Any how back to naps.  Here is what I have tried so far.

Going in 10 minutes early and doing shh/pat
Decreasing A time
Darkening Room
Winding down twenty minutes before nap
He is always swaddled
White noise
Standing beside crib and rubbing his forehead
Taking him out and holding him still
Wake to sleep

Nothing is working, Any suggestions? 

Tina

[MJMom]

What does your routine look like these days?  Also, what are you doing for his A times?

[Vieira]

Hi Alissa,

Since I've been trying W2S with Carter for the past two nights this is a general schedule

4:00 W2S
E:  8:30am
A:  8:30-9:30
S:  9:30-10:00
10:00-11:00 usually try to get him to go back to sleep
A:  11:00-11:30
E: 11:30
A: 11:30-12:30
S: 12:30-1:00
1:00-2:00 usually try to get him to go back to sleep
A:  2:00-2:30
E:  2:30
A:  2:30-3:30
S:  3:30-4:00
4:00-5:00 try to get him to go back to sleep
A: 5:00-5:30
E:  5:30
A:  5:30-6:30
S:  6:30-7:00
A:  7:00-8:00 usually have given up trying to get him to go back down at this point
S:  8:00-8:30 catnap on me
A:  8:30 bathtime
S:  9:00
Down for the night
I set the alarm for 4:00am to do W2S

Some activities I do during the
A time after eating are (they vary from day to day)
Sitting and playing with toys
Sitting and watching me in his bouncy chair
5-10 in exersaucer
Then as it gets closer to nap time I take him upstair and continue quiet activities
Playing in his crib
reading a book (don't let him look at pictures)
walk around singing
rock in the rocking chair
Swaddle
Hold him for 5 minutes

This is a basic day with Carter and Mama V

Thanks Alissa, your support is greatly appreciated
Wish me luck on S2W tonight
I just read someones thread and I don't think I woke him up enough last night so I'm going to wake him until his eyes open tonight.  I've come to two conclusions tonight as I was putting Carter to bed.
This first is
Good or bad, today always ends and there is always tomorrow
and
It will all work out in the end, and if it isn't working out then it isn't the end.

Tina

 

[MJMom]

Tina- I'm a little stumped.  Your routine looks reasonable.  The 30 minute naps is generally an indication of OT, but especially the first A time is short enough and it looks like what you do for A times is low key. 

The other thought, is have you tried increasing his A times?  It should be around 1hr 15 about now.  It's puzzling that would cause a 30 minute nap though.  That would generally be where I would look for consistent 45 minute naps.

The only thing that I can think of is if he doesn't like going to sleep late and the late wake up.  I know that works for some babies, but I just wonder if he doesn't like that.  BUT, before I make that assumption, I'm going to see if I can get some other folks to look at this.  There is nothing obvious to me.

Besides the one early wake up, is that the only time he wakes?

[Vieira]

Hi Alissa

Funny you should mention extending A time.  First I decreased it because I thought he was over stimulated.  This morning after a very rough night I decided to try and extend it to an hour and twenty minutes.  Although it took a bit to put him down when he woke up at the thirty minute mark I went in and rubbed his forehead for about 15 minutes and he went back to sleep for another 45 minutes.  I've tried so many things but I was really insistent on decreasing his A time.  He is a very alert, tactile and energetic baby so maybe I changed the wrong thing.  I'm happy that I got that one nap out of him for today, we'll see how it goes for the next one.  The 5 am wake up is the only wake up before 7 am.

Do you mean his bed time is late and that I should let him get up earlier?

Thanks,

Tina

[meltown]

for your LO's age the A time in between the short naps is to long.  if you are trying to put back to sleep give it 40-45 min and if nothing take them out feed them and then give it abotu 10 min and try again.  right now your LO is up for 2 plus hours including the feeding and trying to get back to sleep.  this is causing your LO to be OT.  I know it will seem at first to be that you are feeding or trying to get them back to sleep but it will get better as the Overtiredness goes away.

HTH

[MJMom]

Tina,

Melissa brings up a couple of good points about the later naps.  I was still befuddled over the first one.  Based on your experience this am, sounds like your LO needs help getting over the 30 min. mark - which is different than the 20 minute mark of other infants his age.  Have you read the napping FAQ's re: nap extensions with holding him down as he transitions from one phase of sleep to the next?

He has a 7:00 am wake up?  I assumed 8:30 because that is when you first feed him?  If that is the case, then a 9:00 bed time is too late.  Although part of the issues of getting him down would be related to the culmination of the days over-tiredness.

Glad you had one successful nap extension!  I think I was getting thrown off by the 30 minutes.  But as Melissa mentioned, the OT tends to get cyclical... OT begets OT begets OT.  The good news is sleep begets sleep as well.