Ack - 2 1/4 YO Not Napping - Stopped Sucking Thumb - UPDATE

[Mom to M&M]

Well for the past week my DD (27.5 months) has not been napping unless in the car. And she's not tacking on the sleep at night - she's still getting between 10-11 (closer to 10) hours most nights. And correspondingly we've noticed that she's not sucking her thumb. She's always been a rabid thumb sucker - both for sleep and during the day but for some reason, not anymore - except maybe for a few seconds during a hug but that is rare too. So she's been waking for the day around 7:20 or so. Put her in for a nap around 12:45-1 and she's literally in there for at least 1.5 hours singing, counting, kicking the crib, talking about Mickey Mouse, etc. On Wednesday she finally fell asleep after being in there for 1.5 hours so I let her sleep an hour. Thursday she was in there almost 1.5 hours and didn't sleep so I got her up so we could leave for Thanksgiving and she slept in the car (asleep within 2 minutes without her thumb).

I've tried moving the nap forward and back and that doesn't help. I can only guess it's thumb related and that now she doesn't know how to sleep unless she's just so tired that she literally passes out or she has something like the car to help her. At night she is ok - it's taking her up to 45 minutes to fall asleep instead of 10-20 but not too bad.

Any ideas? Just keep trying and hopefully it works itself out? I should mention that prior to this she was a great napper - usually falling asleep within 20 minutes (most often less) and usually needing to be woken after 1.5-2 hours.

[Mom to M&M]

Well today she was in there from 12:50-2:50 (she fell asleep last night at 8:45 despite going into bed at 8 and woke this morning at 7:35) and never slept. Just got her up and I'm sure she'll now fall asleep in the car - we have to leave here around 4:30 or so for a 20-25 minute ride. I guess at that point only let her get a 30 minute catnap or so?

[andibig]

Difficult as I know it is Karen you can't make her sleep .At least however she is happy to stay in her room for the duration of her nap (or lack of it)
TBH I'd keep putting her down at the same time still and if she doesn't nap then bring her bedtime forward.
I'm assuming shes got all her teeth and is generally well in herself so there wouldn't be any physical reasons for her to stop sucking her thumb??

[Mom to M&M]

Hi Andrea! No molars yet and she has been pushing back there on both sides a lot so that definitely could be a factor. But if anything, with her other teeth, she sucked her thumb more, not less. And pain relief before naps hasn't seemed to help. "Happy to stay in there" to a point but not quite - she fusses off/on and I generally have to go in a few times to remind her it's nap time and all.

So if she falls asleep in the car around 4:30 or 5 today limit it to 30 minutes?

As for bedtime, I've been doing 8 instead of 8:30 but based on our schedules it's a bit hard to do much earlier. I've tried 7:45 but it didn't help and just made it hard on all of us...

I miss the thumb sucking! Plus my dad is an orthodontist so I wasn't worried at all about it affecting her teeth as that could have been fixed at no cost...

[M and N's Mom]

I think that was about the age my DD started skipping naps some days.  I kept putting her in every day and enforcing quiet time if she wasn't going to sleep.  She'd do the same things you're describing...sing/talk etc.  Eventually when she wasn't sleeping I would let her have a huge pile of books to "read".   But, she'd have the chance to sleep if she needed to.  I did have to work to train her and did wi/wo as necessary.

It really paid off as now she is almost 5 and still has quiet time every day (and still falls asleep some days).

[Layla]

Karen, I also think that its related to her starting to drop her nap. Isabella did this around that age as well. I think the best thing to do is try quiet time... some days she will sleep & some she won't. On the days she doesn't sleep try for an earlied beditme. Personally I don't let Isabella start her nap past 1ish pm as it pushes bedtime too late (she wakes around 6am) but if Marisa would fall asleep as late as 4pm then I would probably limit to 30mins as well.

Unfortunately I haven't done any training with wi/wo for quiet time as I have Jasmine's nap to protect & there would just be too much protest. The only way to get my daughter napping these days (well for the past 2 months actually) is to sleep with her. I leave her as soon as she's asleep but otherwise she was screaming to get out. You could also try something like that... although that is a potential for her to ask the same at night. Thankfully we haven't had that problem here & she is really god about accepting that only mummy & daddy are allowed on our bed at night.

Hopefully its just a phase... which might come & go until she finally drops the nap

hth a little
Layla

[Mom to M&M]

Thanks both Sari and Layla. I also agree that she may be starting to drop her nap, but isn't it strange with the thumb sucking too? I mean she literally went from sucking her thumb a LOT (not only for sleep but also when reading books, cuddling, etc) to basically not at all at the same time. And she went from napping a LOT to this  not at all. Seems so odd to me but then again she's always done everything to extremes - for example, she didn't walk until 14.5 months but once she did she walked all the way down the hall at once. And she didn't talk really at all until 21 months but now she's talking a TON.

As for today, she didn't end up sleeping in the car until on the way home from dinner. So she passed out cold (no thumb) at like 7:50 and woke briefly when we got home just after 8 when I changed her diaper and put on her PJs but then right back out.

I WISH she would fall asleep for her nap with me and/or DH - actually think that would be nice. But then she just thinks it's play time and jumps around. Grr.

Will just keep trying. If she really is dropping her nap, how long until you think she starts tacking that onto her night sleep? If she falls alseep so easily in the car does that mean she really does still need the nap? Not that I can force her to get it...

[Layla]

If she really is dropping her nap, how long until you think she starts tacking that onto her night sleep?

Well with us Isabella will do a 12hr night if there is no nap. So I think it adds onto nightsleep that very same night.

If she falls alseep so easily in the car does that mean she really does still need the nap?

Funny you wrote this cause in my head when the whole "dropping the nap" business started I was saying the exact same thing!!! "surely if she's falling asleep and/or acting all tired & her behaviour clearly shows that she needs to nap.... then what is the problem?!?" With us alot of it had to do with control/her telling me I can't make her sleep & so she was jumping up & down screaming to get out! Also someone else pointed out to me that at this age some find it super hard to be able to relax... so we went back to being super conscious of the time leading up to the nap....started of with reading lots & lots of books & still do to wind her down. Some days she will too jump up & down & some days she will fall asleep in 5mins! If she doesn't sleep 2-3 days in a row she will not fight the nap on the 3rd day... it sort of accumulates & even though she has done 12hrs at night for the past 3 nights she will still want to nap. I don't think mine would be able to go w/o a nap any more than 3 days in a row.

I remember with the 2-1 transition there a long time when I would avoid car rides around 10am as if we were in the car driving around Jasmine would fall asleep 100%. So with the no-nap transition I also avoid car rides if Isabella has not napped. We usually do something distracting cause if we are at home & there is a slight chance of boredom or her getting annoyed with something.... we have tantrums galore! I try my very best to keep her occupied... we go to the park, train rides, set her up in the bath to wash her animal toys... things that she loves doing. If we have to drive somewhere I am constantly checking that she doesn't fall asleep. I don't know... some would allow for a late catnap but it just means waking her up 30mins later & she still takes forever to fall asleep at night... still wakes up at the same time in the morning.. less sleep overnight & a very cranky toddler at 8am the next day. You get the idea, lol

The thumb sucking...can you think of anything that might have put her off her thumb? I really don't know anything about that method of self soothing as my girls never sucked their thumb... just thinking though... is it possible that she is dropping that method of self soothing & is picking up something else? Do they outgrow thumb sucking???

[Mom to M&M]

Thanks again Layla. I wish she would at least add on to night sleep then but with the no nap yesterday she still only got 11 hours overnight. She might have slept later but some loud sirens went by outside at 6:50. So hopefully she'll take a nap today but I don't know... It's just so odd to me that she went from a long nap to now no nap (unless in car).

I do think it has partially to do with not knowing how to relax. And thumb sucking used to be how she did relax. And she did it really often! I really don't know what might have happened with that. She could definitely be working on 2 yo molars but teething never put her of her thumb before. Grr.

[Mom to M&M]

Well thank goodness she napped today. After not napping at all yesterday and waking at 6:50 she was really tired and cranky this morning. Put her in for her nap right about 12 or a little before and she was out by 12:10 (no thumb). I checked on her around 1:15 and her thumb was in there. Woke her at 2 and she's definitely in a better mood. Will try for 8pm bedtime and see how it goes. Hopefully she'll at least go back to napping some/most days for now as she does seem to need it.

[Zoey]

Could she have an ear infection - speaking about the thumb sucking... well maybe even the napping.  Could it hurt to suck?   Also, they say, and I've experienced (and taken him to the doctor 8 times for) that when they teethe the molars, it can refer pain to the ears.  This was especially true for Owen and his 4, two years molars.  The one time O actually had an ear infection, his only symptoms were sleep troubles and not sucking his paci (at the time, he was 3m old and hadn't found the thumb yet).  Just tossing it out there!

Hugs.

[Mom to M&M]

Thanks Stacy and Zoey. I was actually more (or at least just as) shocked about the stopping thumb sucking as I was with the not napping. Although they are DEFINITELY related as she's really struggling to find ways to relax without the thumb sucking. She's still going to town on her water and milk though (both through straw cups). So hard to say... Other ideas for teaching her to relax without her thumb? I was glad to see she was sucking it in her sleep before...

[Mom to M&M]

She's definitely working on the molars - the fingers are back there on both sides ALL the time. She never stopped sucking her thumb with the other teeth but who knows... Put her in bed just after 8 tonight and she finally fell asleep (after singing both Itsy Bitsy and Twinkle Twinkle, counting to 10 and making animal sounds) at about 8:45 or so. We'll see what tomorrow brings...

[Mom to M&M]

2 hours? wow! Marisa has done that long instead of not napping recently but not that long at night - think 1 hour is the tops she's played before bed.

After falling asleep around 8:45 DD slept until about 7:30 so that is good. It's rainy and gross here today so definitely hoping she naps today (much harder for both of us to deal with no nap if we can't at least get outside). Maybe I'll try some Motrin before nap - can't hurt...

[Mom to M&M]

So I put her in her crib today at 12:30 or so (after having given her Motrin at 11:30). She played and talked and all in there for ages and then finally fell asleep at about 1:45 or just after. I'll likely wake her after an  hour to try to preserve bedtime (which is usually between 8 and 8:30).

I don't know what to think. I'm not sure if she needs more A time in the morning (although yesterday she fell asleep after less than 5.5 hours awake), if it's the teeth, if she's phasing out the nap or what. Any thoughts?