12 month old with 30-45 min naps

[lesorl]

I will be forever indebted to you all for helping me through this "crisis"...

New mum- what the heck does teaching granny to suck eggs mean?    I'm so grateful you posted specifics, as I was just about to head to the props board and ask for them.  I think we have a good wind down- read books in her room, change diaper, close blinds and door, sing rock a bye baby, and then in crib (although of late it's been in crib after continuous rocking to sleep).  I know from experience that if I put her in her crib awake, she immediately stands up.  As soon as I leave, she begins screaming.  So do I continue to lie her down til she stays lying down?

You're right, since she's already OT, I may as well bite the bullet.  And yes, we pay for healthcare here, but it's just a copay so no big deal.

The hardest part is doing it myself- I know hubby will cave quickly. 

She's already in for her 1st nap, so I think I'll start tonight.

Should I get rid of her paci too while I'm at it?  Or is that all just too much? 

Finally- should I still be aiming for 2 naps, 9am and 1:15pm, as a schedule?

[MommaHolmes]

I'm no expert on the GW stuff, but Nic (New Mum) is - having been there, done that and got the t-shirt - so will leave that to her. Only thing I would say is to echo that CONSISTENCY is the important thing (as ever!) - if you give even slightly mixed messages by giving in on one occasion then you will end up back at square one (or even square minus one!)

I think you stick with the routine that M has got used to over the past few weeks. You know she can fall asleep at those times so seems like a good place to start.

As far as the paci is concerned, can she use it totally independently or does she rely on you to come find it / replug etc (surely not, given her age!). If she can use it independently then it's not contributing to the problem and leave well enough alone - plenty of time to sort that later.

Do whatever you can to get DH on board - surely he is ready for tackling this by now??

Get on the Props board too, the more support you can get the better.
We're here 

[skatty]

Hi Leslie, I didn't realise you rocked her for naps too, great advice from Nicola  I second what Momma Holmes says about the paci, definitely keep it, Leorah has at least 10 in her cot and when I hear her stir in the night she moans away and all of a sudden it goes quiet and I know she has replugged.

Good luck with the GE, do you think perhaps now she is older they need to change her meds or the dosage? Do you think it might be worth recording her diet for a few days and see if there are any links to her sleep patterns?

When Leorah's sleep was very bad I just decided that I would be very tired and do the night training myself to make sure everything was consistant, it was worth it as things improved straight away. My DH would not dare not follow my instructions after all the work I have put into L's sleep, I was nicknamed Skatty because I am a scatterbrain but when it comes to L's sleep I am a control freak, I still record all her naps and if things start to gp wrong I analyse everything! The good thing is once you finally come through this you will also nip things in the bud before they get really bad. Good luck for tonight or this afternoon where you are 

[NiknLily]

'teaching granny to suck eggs' is an old saying for when your telling someone something they already know 

I know from experience that if I put her in her crib awake, she immediately stands up.  As soon as I leave, she begins screaming.  So do I continue to lie her down till she stays lying down?

Yes, this sounds a bit perverse but sometimes with sleep training Lily I found that unless she got upset there was nothing I could do to help her re-learn how to go to sleep.  So if it takes you leaving the room for her to get upset then this is what you have to do.  If she is just standing there happily not going to sleep then no amount of PD will work it just becomes a game  to them.  They have to realise its not time to play, this isn't a game, it's time to sleep! 

So you lay her down, head for the door.  She stands up see you leaving then gets upset.  You then lay her down.  If she jumps straight back up not crying you head for the door again, this will upset her again then you go back and lay her down.  Usually a few rounds of this is enough for them to realise you mean business about laying down.  She may continue to stand up crying, if so lay her down and see if you can keep her down by stroking or rubbing her back. If she wants to get back up remove your hand and let her get right the way up before laying her down, don't be tempted to try to lay her down to quickly as this will just get her mad!.  Once she stays down, you can help her get to sleep if she needs it by rubbing or stroking.  It could take a looong time, but sooner or later she will stop crying and fall asleep. 

If she gets really upset and just isn't calming down, it's OK to give a cuddle, what I did was wait for her to stand up then just cuddle her over crib rails, no picking up, wait for her to calm right down then lay her down.  You can tell her it's time to lay down now, your sooo tired thats why your so upset, it's OK, your only going to sleep and Mummy is right here to help you.  Lets get you comfy, close your eyes and wait for the sleepy to come.  Or words to that effect.  This really helps Lily now she is older, when she was younger it didn't seem to have much effect, sometimes got her more upset so I limited what I said and when.  Lily would sometimes (usually for early NW's) seem to have a tantrum in her cot.  She would be crying hard and wriggling all over, be really cross and not like me to intervene, if I tried to lay her down she would get more upset if I helped her stand up she would get more upset and throw herself back down again.  When this happened I would try to talk her down, try to hold a hand on her back but pretty much just let her get past that to the plain upset crying when she would respond to me comforting her.

I 3rd the keep the paci idea, it will help her to relearn how to self soothe.

If you really don't trust DH not to cave in and rock her then it's best to do it alone for consistency sake.  Like I said earlier it is tough going but you can do it, even on your own.  I did so I'm positive you can.  Doing it on my own was another reason why for middle of the night NW and EW I would sleep on floor in Lily's room it was just easier than keep going back to bed just to have to get back out of it again.  On the plus side I think it really helped move Lily past her EW because she saw that it wasn't time to get up and was hugely comforted by my presence in the room.  I found her fast asleep sitting up with her face pressed against rails of cot one morning, she must of just been sitting there watching me until she fell asleep 

Any more specifics, just ask 

Good luck you can do it 

[lesorl]

OH MY GOODNESS!!     

It took 2 hours to get her to sleep.  I don't know how I had the stamina to sleep train her at 3 months, b/c I'm mentally and emotionally drained from 1 session. 

She wasn't crying while I was in there, so I kept leaving and giving her a minute.  She'd cry hard, and as soon as I went in and laid her down, the crying stopped.  Then she'd stand up or start clapping.  I felt like I had no choice but to leave, since she wasn't crying.

This makes me think I won't be able to sleep on the floor in her room 

I suspect she'll be up in 30 mins, as her A time was 5 hours by the time she fell asleep.  I'm praying that this 1st session is the longest.

My mom usually minds M on Fridays- and I highly doubt she'll be able to try to get her b2s after she wakes early from her nap.  Is this going to be a big problem in this re-training?

Please tell me it's going to get easier very soon.  I'm not sure if I have the stamina for it this time.

[skatty]

Leslie things will improve quickly. I actually think GW is not going to work for you as you are distracting M by being there, we had this with L  We did a modified WIWO and when I first started Leorah would get so mad she would throw all her dummies and toys out of the cot and scream and yell but I stayed strong and after the first hellish night she really got with the programme that Mum is no longer going to entertain me on my NWs, she'll come if I need her but she will provide no late night entertainment!! The second day took 1 WIWO and the third she resettled herself at every waking, now if she calls for us in the night we know there is something up. AS M is also spirited I think you should do WIWO the same way as I did and that is time how often you go in for say 30 seconds, during that 30 secs L would be mad but if she had a break in the yelling I would start the 30 secs again, if she is really distressed obviously go back in. The first time I say "shh, it's sleepytime", kiss her head and lay her down, next time I say "ssh" kiss on head and lay her down, next time just a kiss on head and anytime after that just lie her down with a quick rub on the back or cheek and leave.

Remember the fact that she stands clapping when you are there shows what is really p#ssing her off is the fact you wont come and keep her entertained, this really helped fuel my willpower when training L as she was just playing me really, cheeky madam! They are clever and once they realise Mumis serious and they aren't going to win this battle they either go to sleep or play in their cots by themselves untilo they are ready to sleep. At first I would hear L playing with her dummies at all times of the nigt and sometimes she'd babble away but as she started sleeping more and more this hardly happens now, bed is for sleeping.

On Friday I think it will be better for your Mum to give WIWO a go and have a short nap rather than have her rock her. She is already OT so will go to bed early anyway but you don't want your no rocking hard work to go down the pan. Just remember this method has worked on hundreds, probably thousands of toddlers including Leorah and you know I had big troubles too, I was shocked at how successful it was and wish I had done it months earlier. Just think if you are consistant you will both be getting much more sleep very soon 

[lesorl]

OK well not as horrendous (sp.?) as I thought (depending on how you look at it), but I suspect the exhaustion helped sleep through the night. 

She finally fell asleep about 6:40pm (I started at 4:50pm), and I didn't hear her again until 5:14am.  (new mum- so glad you recommended the ear plugs.  They really really helped).  I then did WI/PD- stand by crib until she stands again, not crying/WO- which lasted til 6:05am.  She's always been an early riser, I can count on one hand the number of times she slept past 6:20am.

After I leave the room, she cries her ed off cry (the "how could you leave me" kind of cry), and then it turns into a screech.  The screech is usually what brings me back into the room.  I think towards the end of last night's session, I left her a little longer each time, as there were breaks in the crying.  Or she was just too tired to fight me anymore.  I waited til she was asleep to leave the room, as I thought if she was lying down and I left, we'd start all over again.

I'll put her to sleep Friday- my mom just won't be able to do WI/PD/WO to attempt an extension. 

[skatty]

Sounds positive, she is starting to realise there is no point in wasting too much energy fighting with you 

[NiknLily]

Fantastic, what your doing is great, your being consistant and getting some results already.  I think the thing with sleep training older LO's is that you do really have to adapt how you do the basic techniques to your LO's needs, so what your doing is spot on.  Lily had got to the point where she could not sleep unless I touched her until she was sound asleep, so I had to do GW to break that and get out of room, because even when I was no longer touching her when she fell asleep she would constantly check to see if I was still in the room and all hell would break loose if I had crept out and it would take even longer to get her back to sleep because she didn't trust me to stay there.  Then she changed it up and me being there started to cause more distraction, so then I started with the WI/PD/WO. 

You really do just have to play it by ear, like Skatty said they are very clever at this age.  I never stay in Lilys room to help her sleep now, no matter how long it takes of wi/pd/wo.  Only a couple of times when teething and very OT from skipping her nap (yep we get no nap days!) have I actually cuddled her to sleep from a nw, thats when she is just soooo tired, sooo upset nothing else will calm her and she falls asleep almost instantly

Good work, hopefully by friday her naps will be a little longer already 

[skatty]

New Mum, you are already getting no nap days  Yikes, I hope that doesn't happen here! We had a 40 min nap today, I knew she was teething but didn't want to give her medicine as she has had a lot today and she woke crying and couldn't get back to sleep, the first time I gave her gel and then 10 mins later nap done 

[lesorl]

I do not look forward to no nap days- at all.  Earlier bedtime, I suppose?

This morning her crying was much harder.  Whole process was about 63 mins, but the last wait time before WI was a little longer (unintentionally, as it apparently takes me longer than 30 secs to pee  ), and then WI/ rub her head a little, and she settled to sleep.

It seems like the longer wait time (even though she's livid) helps speed the process.  But I can't help feeling like it's controlled crying.

What do I do if when trying to extend for 30 mins post-nap, we run into a feed?  I'm only expecting 30 mins, and then another 30 will take us to almost lunch time. 

Today was harder, as the crying was harder.  Please, please, please get easier soon.

[MommaHolmes]

Leslie, it sounds like you're doing fantastic!

It WILL get easier soon - she's protesting because the rules have changed, but once she understands what the new rules are, everything will settle down.

I'd be inclined just to focus on extending the pm nap and give both of you a break for the am. I suspect once the pm nap and night sleep improve then the am nap will improve by itself OR it will stay short in preparation for the move to 1 nap.

I know it feels like it is taking a lot of energy / stamina to do this sleep training, but this should be a few DAYS of hard work, as opposed to several more MONTHS of very disrupted sleep for both of you. It will be soooooo worth it.

Keep on keepin on mamma 

[lesorl]

Won't I confuse the issue with extending the pm nap?  The only way she ever goes b2s is by rocking.  If I plan on trying to extend each nap (under 1 hour) by WI/PD/WO for another 30 mins, won't this process take longer?

And sometimes she doesn't let me lie her down- she's a fighter.

[MommaHolmes]

You won't confuse the issue provided you are consistent - if you're not going to extend the nap then you give a clear message that it's time to get up by striding in, smiling, talking and throwing open the curtains. If you are going to try and extend the nap (which I think you should for the pm nap if under 1 hour but IMO you should just accept whatever you get for the am nap) you go in, minimal eye contact, minimal talking, and enact your WI/PD/WO plan.

Have you set yourself a 30 min time limit for doing WI/PD/WO to extend a nap? If so then make sure that you see the whole 30 mins through and then walk in with your 'it's time to get up now' face on  If your behaviour is totally different when it's naptime and when it's time to get up, it will be very clear to her what is expected.

Sorry to depress you guys - Ollie is now a frequent no-napper too  But my experiences with 2-1 have left me much better equipped to deal with it (yep, early bedtime!) - we even had three no nap days in a row over Christmas but have managed with no EW and very rare NW. I am convinced it is because he is cutting canines tho - one more to go!

[NiknLily]

can't add anymore to that  except, keep on keeping on