Can anyone see where I might be going wrong?

[emz1907]

My lo is bottle fed and is currently more or less on 3hr easy. Ive been reading a few other baby books and most say bottle fed babies should be going longer at his age (he's coming up to 12 weeks). I think Im scared that Im feeding him when he's not truly hungry. Sometimes if he's not napping well and is grouchy its useless trying to pacify him as he won't settle again and definetly won't stand any A time as he's already ot. In the end I end up giving him another feed, sometimes its only 2.5hrs since the last. He will take between 3-4 oz so Im guessing I couldn't be forcing it on him as he wouldn't take so much would he? At a usual feed he will take 4-5oz. He usually has 6 bottles a day. Should I be trying to get him to go longer between feeds? What else can I do when he wakes from a nap early and is ot so won't stand any A?

[em_here]

Hi there, at this age I would say it is fine that he is going 3 hrs, I wouldnt move to 4 hrly until he is at least 4 months old. It sounds like the quantities of milk he is having are great, about 30oz from what you wrote. I would say with regards to the OT, I would post on the EASY board and see if there is anything that needs tweaking in the routine so he is not so OT, I understand about the feed pacifyig him, as I did this many a time, but of course the result is less milk taken and therefore the routine goes a little out of whack.  But as I said, as far as the milk consumption and times go, sounds like you are doing a fantastic job x

[emz1907]

Thanks

I'll try a post in the other section

[*Mona*]

I'll move your post over there

[emz1907]

For the last few weeks my ds has been following the same pattern and Im not sure its a healthy one. I'd like someone to have a look and let me know if Im doing something wrong here?
Today we had a bit of a nightmare day, from 6am waking until 5.30pm he was lucky if he totalled 2-2.5hrs sleep He had an hour after his first feed of the day and little 20min naps from there. Result was one ot little boy who was very grouchy. Thing was it was way to early for another feed and attempting any activity time was asking for trouble as it resulted in a screaming ot fit. Even after I calmed him down he still couldn't drift off, resulting in him being shattered by 5.30 when after a quick bath and bottle he finally drifted off and is still asleep now.

Now not every day is as bad as this, but he does take short naps during the day but is so tired by 4-5pm that he conks out. I learnt not to wake him for another feed until his 10.30pm nightly feed as it resulted in an overtired wailing session. I know he needs this block of sleep as he hasn't had much during the day. Thing is some nights he's out by 4.30 which is surely way too early for bed time? I often end up missing his bath time out as I think he may wake again at a more normal bed time and do it then but he's always out for the count. We always get him up for a feed at 10.30 and he's back down by 11. He will wake sometimes between 4-5am for another feed and has started occassionally waking at 6am which I take to having slept through the night. So it doesnt affect his night time sleep as I would expect but this very early bed time just seems wrong to me. Is that daft? He's not always grumpy during the day and will sometimes have a good long nap, he isnt totally consistant but it happens often enough for me to think its becoming the norm.

What can I do to maybe tweak this without having to wake him from his much needed sleep? what can I do with him in that time he wakes early but its too early for feed and he's too tired for A?

[emz1907]

Ive just posted a new one

[HeatherC]

Have you made any attempts at lengthening his naps?  Can you give us an idea of his routine, even though it is broken by short naps? 
He will surely continue with this early bedtime until he takes longer naps.  I don't think it's "wrong," but it's probably difficult for you, or at least it would be should you have evening plans.
It just looks like he's starting his night time sleep a little too early.  If you could manange to shift him forward in 15 min blocks, it may even out a bit.  Say, bedtime at 5:30, then 5:45, then 6:00, etc.  To do this, you will have to work on lengthening his daytime naps so that he can make it till a later bedtime.  Do you ever treat the 4:30/5 sleep as a nap and wake him?  He may have a hard time with it in the short run, but in the long run, it may get his sleep sorted out.

[emz1907]

I have tried to wake him from this early sleep but it always resulted in a full on screaming ot fit which takes about an hour or so to calm him down from:-\ Then by the time we've done that and he's back off its not that long until he's up again for the 10.30pm feed then he hasn't had nearly enough sleep for the day.
Its hard to post a set routine as most days start at a different time, he never seems to get up at the same time everyday but it will mostly be around the 6am mark. Depending on how his naps are going also depends on how his A time figures out as sometimes he wakes from a short nap, has a little A time then back down whereas other times he just won't stand any interaction as he's so tired. Everyday is a little bit different, although he will tend to feed on the 3hr mark there arre always the variations.
I haven't done anything to lengthen his naps apart from the usual shh'ing and what not to try and settle him again when he wakes. I wasn't sure what else to do. Im not sure if this is just the way he is or if there is anything I can do to chaneg it. Everything ive tried so far including trying to keep him up that little bit later for bedtime just results in ot screaming. Its a very fine line with him, he snaps into ot so easily and then its a full on fight to clam him down again

[HeatherC]

Have you gotten out of the house much with him?  The reason I ask is that sometimes you can both go nuts being inside trying to catch the naptimes and a little break is very helpful.  Otherwise, are you watching the clock to time his naps?  With his type of napping personality (is he spirited/touchy?), you pretty much have to put him down at set times before he gets ot.  How long of A time does he have before his first nap of the day?  I would try 1 hr and see what happens. 
My dd was a short, 30 min napper, and, therefore, always cranky when awake.  I would have to feed her a shorter intervals as well, just to pacify her.  It does change if you work on it.  Find a way to extend his naps (I used a mixture of BW techniques coupled with my own ways) if you can.

[emz1907]

We do get out and about quite a bit. We've had another short naps/grumpy baby day today A 45 min nap, a 50 min nap and 3 ot screaming fits. When he woke from the last nap after 45 mins I managed to calm him and send him off again with a bit of shh pat in about 20mins and 1.5hrs later he's still asleep. Trouble is now its dark and he has crashed out he's likely to stay that way for the night going by past experience. I know if I wake him later on Ill be dealing with his ot again, and I know he needs the sleep but his last feed was 1.30pm so he definetly needs another before bed.

[emz1907]

ALso Ive been re-reading the bw books today in hope for inspiration on what to do with these short naps. Now for all he is grumpy during the day now with these short naps his night time sleep is still ok with 1 wake at around 4-5am sometimes he goes without. How can I start to work to extend his nap times? Ive seen bits about also extending his A time but won't more A time with an already ot baby just be asking for trouble?? I was confused while reading as he seems to be inbetween ages described in the book. He will be 3 months on friday, bw says babies under 3 months to use shhh pat. Babies 4 months and over the pu/pd but what about babies that are 3-4months

[HeatherC]

bw says babies under 3 months to use shhh pat. Babies 4 months and over the pu/pd but what about babies that are 3-4months

I always figured that if they aren't 4 months, then they're still 3 mos.  KWIM?
Keep doing what you did with extending his last nap today.  Also, I would try my best to work toward a 3 hr feeding routine, including waking him to feed at regular times so that his body starts to "feel" the cycle of Eat, Awake, Sleep, Wake up, Eat, Awake, Sleep.  I would also do this in the evening and work toward a regular bedtime with a regular bedtime routine.

[emz1907]

At the moment I don't need to wake him as he is up anyway, but when he was younger we had problems as he needed waking from every nap. I actually think he needed more sleep and its since then we seem to have started the whole ot cycle. He seemed to be sleeping through since that last nap so I woke him at 7. We had a quick bath, change and wind down and he went to sleep easily by 7.40.

Now Im feeling nervous about waking him again at 10.30 for a last feed like we normally do as his bedtime was that much later than normal tonight. I know this might sound stupid but Im so scared of making him even more ot, even though I know I can deal with his screaming fits due to this I still get a anxious knot in my stomach in anticipation of them.

Something else I remembered that I wanted to ask, the last few days when he's had trouble drifitng off he has been bringing his legs right up straight towards the ceiling and back down again while making almost angry noises. Is this just ot behaviour? Its annoying as it obviously stops him falling asleep but he won't stop it

[HeatherC]

When are you putting him down in the morning for his first nap? 
Does he wake when you do the df?  My dd did, but I was bf her, and it was hard for me to feed her asleep.  Ds has been bottle fed, and he usually stayed asleep while taking the df. 
The leg kicking is probably a reflex.  His body is still learning how to work.  Do you swaddle him?  I would, very tightly, and possibly even hold his legs down while he's drifting off.

I know this might sound stupid but Im so scared of making him even more ot, even though I know I can deal with his screaming fits due to this I still get a anxious knot in my stomach in anticipation of them.

No, it's not stupid.  It's extremely common.  I would, however, do your best to find a way to relax before the df.  Have a hot bath, something warm and soothing to drink, dim the lights, read a book.  Settle yourself so that he can sense your calmness.

[emz1907]

I only tried the df asleep a few times but I wasn;t comfortable with it as he didn't take it well at all and kept gagging. He only took like 2oz it hardly seemed worth it. So we have got him up and he is usually awake or at least half sleepy as he takes the feed. He always goes straight back to sleep afterwards and is up for a max of 30mins.

The time of his 1st nap varies as his wake time does but its usually an hour or 1.5hr max from waking. Should I be treating that 1st nap differently?

I do swaddle him as tight as I can, but he's getting good at freeing his arms