Author Topic: Great nighttime sleeper, terrible napper -- any help?  (Read 1453 times)

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Offline Leeba25

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Great nighttime sleeper, terrible napper -- any help?
« on: January 08, 2008, 18:20:31 pm »
I’m not sure where to start, or if I’ve even posted this in the right place.  Please move if necessary! 

My little man is almost a year old.  He is a GREAT nighttime sleeper, I have no complaints there, but he is a terrible napper – at home anyway.  I’m going to try to make this brief but cover all the questions you all might ask, so let me try it this way:

- Breastfeeding, baby sleeps in crib.  He’s in daycare 5 days a week, and takes 2 naps during the day, always at the same times. 
- I nurse him to sleep most nights, and I don’t mind doing this because it’s easy, it works, and it’s a nice way to get another BF into my very distractible nurser.  On nights when he doesn’t fall asleep while nursing (and lately, it’s maybe half and half), he’ll pop off while he’s still awake, and I’ll put him down either awake or almost asleep, and he usually goes down the rest of the way on his own.  On nights when he nurses all the way down, I’ll then carry him over to his crib.  Sometimes he wakes up while I’m carrying him there or when I’m putting him down.  He usually doesn’t complain when he wakes up – he’ll just roll over onto his belly and go right to sleep.  Sometimes he may start crying when I put him down and he wasn’t asleep yet – if he does, I’ll often tell him I love him and that it’s time for night-night, and I’ll leave the room to see if he goes to sleep on his own.  I’m not into letting him CIO, but sometimes if he complains initially about being put down, if I leave he’ll calm himself down within a couple minutes and then go to sleep.  If he continues crying or it escalates, I’ll go back in.  Again, usually nighttime is really easy and predictable, but I want to give you all the facts so you know what we do for all sleeps.  My husband can also put him down, usually involving a bottle first and then a little cuddling, but I tend to do most of the nights since we're nursing. 
- He usually only wakes up at night if there’s a reason (he’s sick, teething, etc.).  If he wakes up, often he’ll fuss for a minute or two and then go back to sleep on his own.  He might wake up and need help going back to sleep once every couple weeks.  Unless, like I said, there is some reason.  We’ll always try to wait him out, because very often he just puts himself back to sleep.  If he needs our help, we’ll give it to him (nursing, rocking, etc), since he doesn’t need it too often. 
- He sleeps at night from 7:30pm until around 6:00am. 
- At daycare, he naps brilliantly.  They plop him in the crib, and he goes to sleep.  Period. No rocking, no bottle (though he is well fed, within an hour of his naps), and most importantly – no crying!  He naps about 1.5 - 2 hours in the AM and then another 1 - 1.5 hours in the PM. 
- At home however… naps are a nightmare.  He’s all over the map.  One day, he’ll go down awake and put himself to sleep for a 2 hour morning nap, so we’re thrilled and thinking we’re on the road to an easy naptime routine.  Next time he’ll cry and fight us the whole time, and absolutely refuse to sleep, no matter the rocking or nursing or whatever he’s given.  Sometimes I’ll nurse him down, and wait till he’s really out, but then when I try to put him in the crib he’ll wake up.  We’re trying this: husband takes the morning nap on the weekends, and I take the afternoon nap.  Husband will give him a bottle right before nap (in the darkened room, music playing, etc.), and then lay him down whether he’s awake or asleep.  Sometimes it “takes” and sometimes it doesn’t.  For “my” nap, I’ll nurse him down and then try to lay him down in the crib (just like we do at night).  I say “try” because it rarely, rarely works for me anymore – he usually wakes as I lay him down.  Sometimes at this point I can nurse him back to sleep (at which point, I just let him sleep on me because I feel it’s fruitless to keep trying), or he may just decide he’s done with naptime for the day.  At this point, if I put him in the car for a drive, he’ll usually conk out, so I know he’s not really done even if he wants us to think he is! 
- He’s going through a bit of separation anxiety, but seems to be getting better with that.  I think his naps got worse when he started with the sep anxiety, so I keep hoping that as he grows out of that his naps will get better. 
- I am scared to do anything here, because of his history.  He was always a very high-maintenance sleeper.  Always needed to be rocked, held, cuddled, nursed, etc. to sleep, even overnight.  Now that he’s so easy at night, I’m scared that if we try to make a change to his naps, it’ll come back to bite me at night.  I know that we’re lucky with the nighttime sleep!  We’ve gotten to this easy phase at night by just pushing him little by little, every chance we get.  Gradual changes, if that makes sense (putting him down sooner and sooner in the process, letting him “fuss it out” rather than going to him right away – that kind of thing).  I’ve wanted to do that for his naps too – just give him what he needs, and hope we can make gradual changes.  But now that he’s almost a year old, I’m worried he’ll never change and I know this lack of sleep on the weekends isn’t good for him. 

If you’ve made it this far, thank you for reading!!  I look forward to any advice or tips that anyone might have.  Do you think I can make a change here, and not affect his nighttime sleep? 

Offline deckchariot

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Re: Great nighttime sleeper, terrible napper -- any help?
« Reply #1 on: January 08, 2008, 20:13:35 pm »
When he's at daycare, it sounds like they don't feed him right before his naps - is that correct?  With EASY, that's how it would normally go - Eat, then some activity, then sleep.  It sounds like at home you try to get him to nap right after eating - which would not really fit the EASY routine.  Am I right on that?  Can you post what your weekend routine looks like in terms of EASY? 
Michelle




Offline Leeba25

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Re: Great nighttime sleeper, terrible napper -- any help?
« Reply #2 on: January 08, 2008, 21:14:26 pm »
Hhmmm.  Interesting note.  Yes, we do put him to sleep directly after eating --- we do this because I've traditionally nursed him to sleep (it always *used* to work!), and so when my husband puts him down, he'll sort of model what I do and feed him directly before the nap.  But you're so right - daycare provider does the morning snack and bottle about a half hour to an hour before they put him down, and the same thing goes for the afternoon nap. 

Other than the timing of that one bottle, we really follow the schedule from daycare on the weekends too.  Sometimes there are extra BF's in there on the weekends, depending on what the baby wants. 

Do you think following their schedule like that -- separating the pre-nap bottle from the nap -- will do the trick??  How could eating directly before a nap disrupt the nap?  I've read some of the BW books, and don't remember that point being made specifically, and I've also looked around on here for that.  I don't want to stop nursing him to sleep at night, because it's easy and it works for us.  If we were to stop it during the day for naps, I suppose my husband would have to "take over" both naps each day (since the baby will not likely be put down willingly by me without nursing).  It might take some work to get my husband on board with that suggestion!  Lol. 

Oh boy, too many thoughts running around in my head.  Do you experts have any opinions?  Thank you SO much for your initial thoughts. 

Offline Leeba25

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Re: Great nighttime sleeper, terrible napper -- any help?
« Reply #3 on: January 08, 2008, 21:27:37 pm »
Oh, I realized that I never specifically answered your question about weekend schedule.  Here’s a good approximation – though of course it varies based on his cues and our activities that day (going out, staying in, etc.)  I will say that we guard naptimes as best as we can, and very rarely will be out of the house for a nap.  That’s easy to do because his naps are so predictable – he always gets tired right around the same time.  Also, I still do sort of a cluster-feed in the morning and again before bed – I think this helps him STTN.  Anyway, here goes: 
6:00 – 6:30 – wake-up and nurse
6:30-7:30 – active
7:30-7:45 – nurse
7:45 – 9:00 – active
9:00 – solid foods for breakfast
10:00 – nurse or bottle, then nap if we’re lucky until 12:00
12:00 – nurse
12:15 – solid foods for lunch
12:45’ish – 2:15’ish – activity
2:15 or thereabouts – solid food snack
3:00 – nurse or bottle, then nap if we’re lucky till 4:30
5:00 – solid foods for dinner
5:30 – active
6:00 – nurse
7:00 – start bedtime routine (bath, books, etc.)
7:30 – nurse to sleep


thank you again for your thoughts!! 

Offline deckchariot

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Re: Great nighttime sleeper, terrible napper -- any help?
« Reply #4 on: January 09, 2008, 00:59:46 am »
Thanks for posting your routine....a couple things stick out to me - first, it looks like he's nursing 7 times a day - is that right?  That seems like a tremendous amount for a baby that's almost a year old.  My dd is 9.5 mos and she only nurses 4 times a day.  It's possible that he's snacking and not eating a full meal, which may indeed be affecting his sleep.  Since he sleeps well at daycare, it's clear that he doesn't need to nurse to sleep.  He also may be more full at daycare because he's taking a full feed rather than snacking from you.  It looks like you're routine is more EAEAS than EAS (solids actually count as part of the A time).  Since he does sleep well at daycare, I'd say try out their routine - you could even ask them specifically what times he eats and when he goes down for a nap. 

It's also possible that he's confused because things are so different from the weekdays and the weekends - particularly in how he goes to sleep.  He is able to go to sleep for naps without nursing, but then on the weekends, he's "expected" to feed to sleep (whether a bottle or you), and he may be saying "wait, that's not how I do things" - even though that's what he does at nighttime.  Babies sort out day time and night time sleep differently.  He's used to not feeding to sleep for his naps (because he naps that way at daycare).

I would try to cut out the extra nursings before his naps.  Ask the daycare what time they give him bottles and what time they put him down and try to follow that as closely as possible on the weekends.  If he eats more at the first E in the EAS cycle, and doesn't eat right before nap time, he may not expect you to nurse him at all, thus saving dh from having to do all the naps.  All the same, you'll need dh to be on board, especially if your ds looks to nurse before naptimes.

HTH
michelle
Michelle




Offline Leeba25

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Re: Great nighttime sleeper, terrible napper -- any help?
« Reply #5 on: January 09, 2008, 13:58:55 pm »
Michelle - thank you again for your thoughts & help!  I really appreciate it. 

Yes, we nurse usually 7 times a day.  That’s not anymore than what he gets at daycare, though obviously at daycare he’s getting bottles rather than nursing.  So I'm not sure he's "snacking" versus taking bigger feeds.  Though, yes, I do still sort of do the cluster feeding at night and in the morning (so maybe those two feeds are really "one" feed, broken up by an hour, lol).  The difference at daycare is the timing – he gets the bottle a little while before naptime at daycare, versus a bottle or nursing right at naptime at home.  We do know their exact schedule, because we get one of those summary sheets each day with times of food, bottles, and naps. 

I know he nurses more than some babies his age (and less than other babies I know his age or older) – I’m not interested in cutting back on that actively until after he’s a year old (less than a month away).  After a year we’ll probably slowly cut back (emphasis on slowly), but I don’t plan to wean right away or anything, since I know it’s a lot healthier for him in so many ways than other things he’s eating or drinking right now.  Oh, and I should mention that when husband takes over a nap, he'll give a bottle rather than me nursing (so less nursing, more bottle on those days). 

Babies sort out day time and night time sleep differently. 

What do you mean by this?  I read similar in one of the BW books, and it's confusing to me.  So they "learn" how to sleep for naps differently than they learn how to sleep at night?  That's really interesting, and not the way we've been approaching this whole thing! 

Again, the only difference between daycare and home, is the timing of those feeds and the format -- the overall number of feeds is the same.  Our thought was to put the bottle or BF close to the naptime, so that he'd have a nice full belly to sustain him throughout the nap.  But I like your idea that it might be confusing to him, that he's expected to fall asleep one way on certain days and another way other days.  We're going to try to space it out a bit, and even more closely follow the daycare routine, and see if that does it. 

I have to say, I'm skeptical.  Lol.  But I'm looking forward to giving it a try.  I'll update you after the weekend, if that's ok.  Thanks again Michelle! 

Offline deckchariot

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Re: Great nighttime sleeper, terrible napper -- any help?
« Reply #6 on: January 10, 2008, 15:49:48 pm »
I'm glad some of what I'm saying is helpful - it really is a process of just trying to sort through things - it may not work, and then we'll try something else!  It seems like you've got a good handle on your lo and what he needs, so that's the most important part.

The bit about day vs night sleep - different parts of the brain control day and night sleep, so humans (babies included) are able to differentiate between sleeping in the daytime and sleeping in the nighttime.  What makes it challenging for babies is that those parts of the brain develop at different times, so babies figure out night sleep first (0-3 mos) and day sleep later (3-6 mos), but once they've got it figured out (which your lo does), they still process it as two different types of sleep - so he knows the difference between nap sleeping and nighttime sleeping.

good luck this weekend, and let me know how it goes...if it doesn't work, we'll keep trying to figure it out!
Michelle