Help! How to break cycle of poor napping causing EW = poor napping!

[emmas]

Hi,

I hope this is the right board to post for advice, my little one is 6.5 months old and last Friday I decided to wean him cold turkey from his dummy after endless replugs.  So far the nights have been great, however the daytime naps have gone to pieces.  It the same time he has decided he no longer wants an afternoon nap and I can not get him to take one (stubborn would describe him to a T!).

My problem is now that (I think) his poor day time naps are causing him to wake early 5 or 6am and that is causing a knock on effect on his nap times?

He routine was;

E - 7am 8oz
A - play + solids
S - 9.30 - 10.30
E - 11am 8oz
A - play
S - 1pm - 2.45pm
E - 3pm 8oz
A - play
E - solids at 5
6:10 - bath
6:30 - bottle 8oz
6:45/7 - bed


Now we have

5/6am wake + 8oz (refuses breakfast 1 hour after bottle)
S - 8am - 8.30am
A - play
E - 10:30
S - 11:30 - 1 if I'm lucky
A - Up until bed - feed and routine the same as above.

He can now self settle and falls asleep in his cot by himself (with a little help from his fav toy), but I can't get him back to sleep when he wakes and when I try to get him to go down for a nap its a real battle he crys, I end up picking him up, calming down and going through this pain several times before he gives in.

Should I just give it time without the dummy??  How do I get him to sleep when he really doesn't want to?? Without the dummy he really doesn't want me to shush pat and I find it impossible to calm him.  Am I just missing the window?

I'm really proud of weaning him from the dummy and as I now get 10/11 hours through the night am I expecting too much during the day?

Sorry its a bit of a long post!!!

Thank Emma x

[deckchariot]

Congrats to you on weaning him from his dummy!!!  I  know that wasn't easy!!!  Have you tried extending his A time a bit?  Usually between 6 and 7 mos, lo's move from 2 hrs of A time closer to 3 (though my dd didn't make it to 3 until almost 8 mos), it looks like he was at 2.5 hrs, and is now at 2/2.5?  Maybe try extending that just by 15 min.  I'm guessing you're right that his bad naps are causing early wakings, so let's see what we can do with those naps.

When he refuses a nap - is he crying?  Is it his mantra cry?  What is he doing and what do you do?

HTH
michelle

[emmas]

Hello and thanks,

I think I might be going in to a mantra cry - I've never heard one before - he is so loud and although most of the time it is a repetitive sound sometimes it breaks and thats when I go in and it seems to go downhill from there.  Should I just leave him - I'd hate to think I've left him to CIO but on reflection I don't think he has ever had tears, they seem to come on when I am trying to calm him.

Is it possible that A times can be longer between some naps than others??  He seems to really struggle to do more than 2 before his morning nap - can normally manage 3 at lunchtime (I think I'm trying to get him down too early).

I've been reading a few other posts about dummy weaning - apparently they can suffer regression around this time so maybe that is an issue too? He still seems to be thrashing around looking for something to suck, god I feel cruel - all I wanted was a decent nights sleep!!!!

[deckchariot]

mantra cry - every one's lo is a bit different, but the key is that it does not escalate, and is usually very rhythmic (it will have a beat-like quality to it).  If it's his mantra cry, don't go in, he is trying to soothe himself.  If it escalates or breaks rhythm, that's when to go it, which it looks like you're doing.  Do you try pat/shh from there?  Does he have a lovey (a stuff animal or something)?  I don't know anything about dummy weaning, so if regression is normal, then I"m guessing you just have to ride it out - but you may want to post a thread on the props board.

A time - yes, it is very common for the first A time to be shorter than the rest of the day.  My dd's morning A time was always about 20 min shorter, until just the last month, now they're about the same..  It seems odd to me that your dd's would be an hour different, but if his morning nap is longer than 45 min, then I'd keep the A time as is.   Then maybe just try to push the next A time a bit - I'd only do 10 or 15 at a time though.

HTH
michelle

[emmas]

Thanks for the advice - its definately a combination of A time and hunger.

Yesterday, although strange actually worked well as I have just had a full 11 hours sleep without so much as a stir with him waking at 640!!

His day went as follows;

Woke at 441 ( couldn't get him back to sleep - after over an hour of trying I gave up.)
E 610
S 705 - 835
E 10
S 1135 - 1220
E 115 (solids 1st time he has had lunch) + bottle at 215
S 330 - 445
E 5 + 6
S 745

He went down without a battle at the 3 hour mark and although his bedtime is later than I would like, its alot better than me trying to get him down for 45 mins.

This morning so far he fell asleep after only 2 hours 15 mins but only slept for 30 mins so not sure how today will pan out.  But thanks, I just needed to focus on his signs and the A time.

Thanks again Emma x

[deckchariot]

glad I could help!  At least he got some good naps....if he seems really tired (and probably is from a 30 min nap), go ahead and put him down a bit earlier.  It's a bit of trial and error to find the "right" A time.

[emmas]

Argh!!!  Its all going wrong, or am I stressing about nothing.  He seems set on having 30mins in the morning, then either 45 mins or an hour and 10 at lunchtime(waking at 115) and then between 1.5 - 2 hours in the late afternoons. 

Should I be doing something to try and change this or should I just think he is having sleep and seems quite happy during the day and is having between 11 and 12 hours at night???

[deckchariot]

If he's happy with it, I'd go with it.  It looks like he's just napping in reverse order  - his catnap is in the beginning, not at the end.  And he sleeps well at night.  That may be a bit unorthodox, but it looks like he's getting good amounts of day and night sleep.  Just keep watching his cues and his routine, because he may change that as he lengthens his A time.