Short naps, shh/pat failure, then what?

[Julie C]

Not sure if this is sleep or feed, so move me if you need to ...

Our LO (3 months, girl, 13 lbs, 3 hour EASY) is not responding the the shhh/pat after her naps-- which she often wakes out of after 45 mins. She will just moan and whimper for the entire 45 min remaining. Then it is time to eat. So I feed her. (My back is often reallllly sore after all this!)

The question is, what do I do afterward? Does she have her A time? For how long? THen do I feed her at the regular time?

I feel like we're making a mess of our routine!

Julie

[*Nicola*]

Julie,

What is your routine like in terms of E,A, and S?  Can you post some of the times.  If your A time is not long enough then your LO will be undertired, wake up at 45 mins and not go back to sleep as she has had enough sleep for the time she has been awake.  So, that is a long way of saying ... maybe extend A time!   

Callie is 3 months old too and is doing between 1hr 20 and 1 hr 30 A time, including Eat and wind down.  All LO's are different of course, but that might give you an idea as it is a pretty standard A time for this age group.

If A time is good for her age then maybe you could try W2S?  We never had much success extending naps with pat/shh once she was awake.  Worked really well for DD1 but not this one! W2S has worked great for us, extending most naps to 1.5 hours now. 

If all else fails and she is awake after 45 mins I usually just follow her cues and make the best of it!  If I know she won't resettle I hold off feeds until regular feeding time, unless she is hungry otherwise she snacks and the whole cycle repeats.  After feeds I go by her cues again and usually put her down as soon as there is a hint of sleepiness.  I have tried to put her down say at the hour mark, but often she is not tired and then has another 45 min nap  , so I would go by her cues. 

Does that make any sense!?

[Julie C]

Thanks...

OUr usual routine is...
7-EA
8:20 or 8:30 -S
9:00 - wakes, do shh/pat
9:45 -A
10:00- EA
11:30 - S
12:00 - wakes, do shh/pat
12:30 - A
1:00- EA
2:30 -S
3:00 -- wakes, do shh/pat
3:30 --A
4:00 -- EA
5-ish -- catnap
7 - E
7:30 -- bedtime
11 - dreamfeed
2:30- wakes, paci
4 -E
6 - wakes, paci, shh/pat

You can see I spend a great deal of time hovered over her crib. My back is killing!

I just spent another 45 mins doing shh/pat to no avail. This time she'd fall asleep for 10 mins, and then wake up. Over and over. I put her down at the hour mark this time because she was yawning, rubbing eyes and doing the eurrrrrrrrrrr. I know she was tired...she just hates to sleep!

In the morning she can barely go an hour of A time. In the afternoon, though, she rarely has any cues for me.

I guess we'll try w2s tomorrow?

[*Nicola*]

Does she have the paci for naps too?

[isaac'smom]

We're still battling this as well. I have tried to extend naps with very little success so I've been trying to cram in as many naps as possible during the day...even if it means messing with dd's schedule. If she has a 45 minute nap, I aim to put her down again after 1.5 hours of A time. A wise fellow-BW suggested this and she is now having at least one nap a day that is 1 hr. to 1.5 hours. I'm hoping this will eventually help her extend her naps and then our schedule will go back to normal. I sometimes get hung up on 'sticking with the schedule' but on those really difficult days, I just tell myself that as long as I'm sticking with the EASY routine, not necessarily the schedule during these difficult times and that helps me maintain some sanity. Some. LOL. Overstimulation might also be a factor? Do you have a low-key A time before you start the wind down for your LO's nap? Do you have a wind down?

Must run...my 45 min. nap monster has woken up! 

[Julie C]

Yes. She uses paci for most of her naps (unless in the car or out for a walk). We have a wind down time...and she goes down for naps very easily. It's just the waking that she can't stop. Now she's starting to do it at night, too...ugh! THat, in combination that she won't let anyone put her back down except me is making for a very exhausted mommy.

JUlie

[*Nicola*]

Just wondering if paci is a problem? Are you having to replug?  Maybe it is becoming a prop?

Did you have any luck with W2S?

[Julie C]

I don't think the paci is a prop (yet..but I do see potential). SHe often wakes crying with it still in her mouth. I did W2S (or tried anyway) today. We got another 20 mins for a total of 1 hour 5 mins. Better than 45mins, I guess!

Not really sure how to do W2S...all I did was stroke her cheek and neck, she woke and stirred, then went back to sleep. Is that right?

Isaac's Mom...if you put your LO back down after 1.5 hours of A time, how do your feeds fit in there? Do you stick to the 3 hour feed or adjust it. For example if she wakes/feeds at 7am then sleeps at 8:30 until 9:15, do you wait to feed until 10am then put her down at 10:45?

[isaac'smom]

I stick to the 3 hour (4 hour, in our case) EASY, just as you said in your example. She's always down for another nap before the next feeding time and, looking at your schedule, it would work for you as well, like your example showed. However, if, for some reason, I'm trying to get her back to sleep for another nap after 1.5 hours and a feeding time is coming up in, say, half an hour....I tend to feed her so that she won't wake up after 30 minutes because she's hungry for her feeding. Like I said earlier, I've become less of a slave to the idea of a 'schedule' and more vigilant with the idea of the EASY routine, where I'm not feeding her to sleep and she is learning to fall asleep independently. For us, right now, that's where I'm at as I'm trying to lay her down more and more awake each day. Can your LO fall asleep independently? DD's naps have been slowly improving as I've been laying her down more awake....independent sleep is the key, because if she wakes up then she is able to put herself back to sleep and not need me to intervene. I know the 45 minute naps are common because their sleep cycles are 45 minutes long and they tend to wake up briefly/stir in between cycles. Perhaps if she knew how to fall back asleep without your help her naps could become longer? I feel like I'm going through a similar thing right now, so I'm not an expert!

Your W2S sounded somewhat successful! I haven't had much luck with it, so I don't feel 'qualified' to help you on that one. I think the idea is to gently rouse them out of sleep to kind of reset their sleep cycle to get them past that 45 minute-mark where they come out of one sleep cycle and enter the next. Hopefully someone else will help you on that one.

HTH! 

[Julie C]

We're also working on laying down more and more awake. She's actually pretty good...I get her at the slow blink usually, but she's still not able to go down completely independently. Keep me posted how you make out, and I'll do the same.

  Julie

[*Nicola*]

I don't think the paci is a prop (yet..but I do see potential). SHe often wakes crying with it still in her mouth. I did W2S (or tried anyway) today. We got another 20 mins for a total of 1 hour 5 mins. Better than 45mins, I guess!

Thats brilliant!! We started off getting 1 hour naps and it has moved up to 2 hours plus. I usually wake at 1.5 hours to keep to 3 hour EASY though. Sounds like you are doing it correct. Aim is to rouse her but not wake her.  Eyes sometimes open, and LO moves head to other side etc.

When we got to the stage of putting Callie down at the nodding/staring stage ind sleep was really just around the corner.  You are doing fantastic, hang in there   

[Julie C]

I said I'd keep you posted...so here's the update:

We transitioned to a 3.5 hour EASY a couple days ago, and all is good now. I think she was waking because...are you ready? It's a novel idea....she just wasn't tired. Who'd have thought? lol.

I'm feeling like I've finally got the hang of reading all her cues, to boot.

Life is good.   

[*Nicola*]

 

We are thinking of 3.5 hour EASY too.  Might cal on you for pointers