HELP PLEASE! Almost 2 - Bedtime troubles

[torontomamma]

DD has been a good sleeper for the most part, minus some early wakings around 18 mos.  For the two months before this she was amazing, I would say "time for bed", she would jump in around 7 and sleep until 7 the next morning. No fuss, no playing or crying.

Now for the last 3 weeks it has been anywhere from 15 min (rarely) to 2 hours getting her to sleep.  It seems like she isn't tired, and she just wants to play.  I have tried gradual withdrawl, but sometimes when I get to just outside her door, she gets out of bed, opens the door and laughs like it is a game.  Last night since it was the weekend, we tried keeping her up til 9pm, since that is when she ends up falling asleep when we try 8pm anyway, and she was up until 11pm.  It was so hard, I finally gave her a cup of milk around 10:30, and she fell asleep soon after, and she woke at 7am this morning.

Her day time naps are limited to 1.5 hours, and she gets lots of activity at daycare with 4 other 2 year olds to play with.

Her schedule currently looks like this

Wake 6am
Nap 12:30-2 max
Bed 8pm
Asleep around 9pm -

I do wi/wo and withdrawl.  I spend about 15 reading before bed, and have moved baths to right after dinner to avoid getting her too excited.  It doesn't help, she starts jumping, playing etc. I have also tried laying in bed with her for 15-20 min til I can feel her breathing slow - that worked ok, but not last night.

Is she over tired? (she seems fine during the day, happy etc)
Do I need a longer wind down?

Any help would be appreciated.

Jaime

[Intransit]

I went through this with Lizwe as well. It was not a fun time at all!!!!
I think that phase lasted for about 1 to 1.5 months, and nothing I did cured it, I would say. I think he outgrew it. I would put him in bed, and then he'd come sliding down the stairs-and Id take him right back  up. Sometimes it was 2 hours of in and out. Now, as he's a bit older 33 months almost, he stays in bed, but will talk/play in his bed for 15-45 minutes most nights, but does go to sleep on his own.
I'd say consistency is helpful, but I really think it was a phase, and he got over it eventually.
But its not so easy on us!!!!
Good luck!

[torontomamma]

Thanks, it's helpful to know others have been through the same and made it out OK.  I keep telling myself it's probably just a phase, but BW has made a bit paranoid of not creating bad habits.  In the last month she has developed a lot in terms of speaking, creative play etc. so I think it may just be harder for her to switch from play mode to sleep mode...

[torontomamma]

So I got her to bed after an hour last night - we did a longer wind down, and did bath and books.  She almost went to sleep right away, but then started up again.  She went down finally at 9:15 and is still sleeping now at 7:30... telling me she needs the sleep but just can't calm down to go right away.

I think I will try starting wind down around 7:30 in hopes that she is asleep by 8:30 so she will be rested for our daily wake up of 6am...

Wish me luck

[brightside]

DS seems to be doing this at the moment. He went from 5-5.5 hours A time like clockwork and then suddenly overnight he wouldn't go to sleep before 6 hours A time. I am guessing its just part of them adjusting their sleep needs. I have to wake DS now at 2pm or he goes to bed really late and last night he didn't go to sleep until 9.15!  I don't know if I missed a tired signal earlier on in the evening or he just decided he wasn't tired. He did also have some ice cream for dessert so maybe that had something to do with it.    I'm finding it really hard to adjust his routine to ensure enough sleep because we have to get him up in the morning as we go to work. 

[torontomamma]

I am not seeing tired signals either...When she does fall asleep it seems to go from wide awake to asleep in minutes... not cranky or anything. 

[MommaHolmes]

Hmmm... I'd expect her to be OT with the routine you've posted - 9 hours at night plus 1.5 hr nap, that's only 10.5 hrs in total when the average is closer to 12.5 hours for a 2 year old 
How much sleep was she getting before things went wonky?

When you said "our daily wake up of 6am", did you mean that you wake her then? If she's got to be awake by 6am then you probably need her asleep nearer to 7pm (aiming for an 11 hr night). If I were you I'd be starting winddown at 6:30pm at the latest!

[debo620]

Jaime, I was going to say the same as previous post.

I would LOVE a later wake-up but we are stuck at 6am,
so right now we are aiming for:

wake 6, out of crib 6:30
down for nap 11:50-asleep by 12---wake around 1:30--- I am still hating waking at 1.5 hrs but if I don't he is up even earlier in the morning.
bed 6:30/6:40---so he can play and windown and be asleep by 7pm or so.

[Layla]

Also on top of the earlier bedtime, I wouldn't be trying to get her to sleep any other way than wi/wo. If she's playing with you and things gradual withdrawal is a game then let her be & if she's crying do wi/wo. If she's not & just babbling to herself let her be!

But I do definitely agree on the earlier bedtime... she is probably too hyped up by 8pm to fall asleep sooner

Layla

[Maffoos mummy]

I agree with pp re it probably being partly OT. I have only just come through this with my ds who is 3 next week. I really think toddlers run on duracell batteries,he currently is grotty with a cold but was doing laps around the garden (mummy chasing him...why do I start these things?!?!?!?!?) and I think would still be there now if I let him!!! I'd say stay consistent with the WI/WO you're doing already. It's dreadfullly frustrating,especially as you;re aware of it cutting into your own precious down time in the evening but she will tire of it eventually. It's tempting to "go easy" on them but I think it's just part of the toddler trying to rule you thing,as they know play is much more fun than sleep (for them that is   ). My ds also doesn't show many sleepy signs anymore so I go more by his mood-tends to get touchy when he's tired and has just started coming up and saying "I don't want to go to bed mummy" which tells me he needs to, ha ha ha!!!

[torontomamma]

Thanks everyone so much for the advice, I agree that she does need more sleep than she is getting so will try for a 7:30 bed time tonight with wi/wo.

 One question about wi/wo... what if she gets out of bed and comes to her door?  Do I just leave her there to play with the door knob and wait until she gets upset to put her back in bed, or do I open the door and put her back in bed before she gets upset?

[Layla]

Leave her & let her play until her heart is content & she will either fall asleep on the floor & then you can put her back into bed or she will make her way back into her bed herself. Eventually she will learn that its more comfortable to sleep on the bed. Treat the whole room as her bed for the moment.

You only go to her if she's crying.

[torontomamma]

So things seem to have gotten worse... I have been doing wi/wo with a bit of sitting on the floor when she seems really wired to make sure she doesn't get out of bed.  Last night it took about 45 min and she went to bed at 8:30 - not bad, but then she woke at 3:30am and did not go back to sleep until 5 am when my DH finally took her in bed with him cause I had to get ready for work.

So I have been awake since 3:30 and am exhausted and don't know what to try now...

Any suggestions?

Also, this seems to be quite common at this age - is it developmental?  I don't see many success stories... does it go away over time?

[MommaHolmes]

If she's taking 45 mins to get to sleep then bedtime is still much too late.
I know it sounds like it couldn't work but have you tried putting her to bed around 6:30?

[torontomamma]

So here's an update (I always wished parents would post more updates so I could see what finally worked...)

I did a form of wi/wo.  I would stand at her door with it open a crack, and when I saw her start to get out of bed I went in, layed her down and left.  No talking, no saying a stern "go to bed" nothing, no eye contact nothing.  Just very calmly layed her down and left. 

The reason I did this and not official wi/wo was because it seemed like to much of a game for her.  She would start to settle and then get out of bed and get upset standing at the door... this too me seemed to get her too worked up and it seemed to ruin how settled she was initially.  This way she doesn't even get on her feet when I go it, so she seems to stay more sleepy...

The first night it took like 30 times of doing this, but now for the last couple of nights, it only takes about 3 times... which by the way equals less than 10 min... HOORAY!!!!!!!!!

I hope it continues, but so far so good.  It has worked for nap times also btw.

I have also put her down earlier, so we are at about 8pm sleep time with a 6 am wake up - works for me.

Thanks to everyone for your help and advice