naps

[Krista Goebel]

Hello.  I am new to the site.  I have a 9 month old girl.  Just started the easy schedule that was recommended by a friend.  She started waking every 1-2 hours at night wanted to be fed.  I had done alot of accidental parenting.  After started the pu/pd and the 4 hour feeding routine she improved  alot.  Slept 6 hours then 9 and now sleeping from 7pm to 5:30am.  Im so happy with results.  Im having trouble with the naps though.  Seem to be the hardest to fix.  This is our 10th day on the routine.  She will sometimes sleep for two hours but sometimes for only 45 minutes.  I probly have to do pu/pd for the rest of the nap time right?  I have been doing it but Like alot of moms out there i find it hard cause of the crying and fussing and it takes so long and my arm is going to fall off!!  I guess i just need some support and to know i am doing the right thing.  I've read the book over and over.  I fell i know exactly what Tracy would say.  Thanks

[Maffoos mummy]

Hi Krista and welcome!! Well done for the massive progress so far! 45 minute naps are a huge bugbear for a lot of babies (and their carers!  ) to get over as it involves resettling themselves back to sleep after one sleep cycle. The fact that your dd is resettling through the night and at a lot of naps is a huge plus point as it shows she's able to make this transition,just needs a little bit of help sometimes...and yes I would do pu/pd at these times as well to give consistency. Is it at a particular time of day that this happens or can it be any random nap? Hope we can help you!

[Krista Goebel]

Thanks for replying.  I put her down for a nap at 8:30-9am and then after lunch around 1:00-1:30pm.  The times have been the same for as long as i've started this schedule.  In the book it says if they arch there back during pu/pd, to not fight a fighting baby.  So do you just put them back in there crib to settle?  Or do you have to do the calming routine to settle them.  I know when im doing it (pu/pd at naps) shes tierd, she yawns and rubs her eyes she just gets frustrated.  Thank you so much for your help.  It also gives me a boost to know that other mothers are dealing with the same issues, im not alone!

[Maffoos mummy]

You're so definitely not on your own!!! I really think sleep is the hardest thing about being a parent,both trying to teach it,and ensuring you get some yourself too!! My ds is now three on sunday,and despite teething,potty training,HUGE tantrums,phases of hitting etc,I STILL think sleep is the hardest thing!!!! To be honest I'm not an expert on pu/pd I can only tell you what I'd personally do myself. I think when you're teaching a baby a new sleep technique you're going to get at least some sort of resistance as they're obviously wondering what's going on,so go with the flow with her getting frustrated. This will definitely lessen as she gets used to the new technique. If she's arching her back I'd put her down then assuming she still crying (probably likely) I'd pick her up again straight away. I'm not sure if this is actually the recommended advice but I found with ds it's simply impossible to manage the weight of an angry baby throwing all their weight back,and so I just HAD to put him down!! The nap times sound good to me,at this age ds had a day that ran 7-7 and slept roughly 9-11, 1-3 and had a short catnap of around 30minutes sometime around 5. Those times are post-sleep training though and so do include time for him to settle himself-i.e. I put him down awake in his cot at 9 so'd probably be asleep more like 9.20 so I guess they were roughly 1 1/2 naps. Anyway,I'm rambling now,let me know how you get on.

[Krista Goebel]

Thank you for replying.  I can't even think of what things to come are going to be like.  But now that i have the book and this web site I'm not as worried.  I put Erika down for her afternoon nap.  She resisted for only about 5 minutes of pu/pd so not bad at all, thats improvement for sure.  Then i watched her really closely and saw her eye movements and her breathing getting shallower and quieter.  I decided to stay with her and pat her really lightly on the shoulder to see what happens at 45minutes.  So i just pulled up a chair stuck a pillow under my arm and the crib for support and flipped through a magazine.  Time went by fast.  Like clock work at 45 minutes she started to stir so i picked up the patting and did the "sleepy-bye" chant which i find works better for her than the "sh-sh".  It took her a couple of minutes to settle back in she never opened her eyes.  I patted for another 20 minutes or so to make sure she was in a deep sleep then i stopped after slowing down for a bit.  She then slept on her own for another hour and 45 minutes around about.  A total of two hours and 20 minute nap.  I didn't think she would sleep that long i dosed of in bed to.  So If i do this for her naps for the next few days do you think she will become dependant on it or will it help her nap longer on her own?  It confusses me why she can cycle on her own at bed time but not at naps.  Do you know why?  Also shes been waking at 5:30am on the dot after going to bed at 7pm.  Has been 3 days in a row now.  Should i do Wake to sleep cause it may be habit or is she hungry?  Thanks so much for all the support......

[Krista Goebel]

Errrrr, i just did pu/pd for an hour while my baby cried most of the time!  How frustrating.  I thought i was making progress yesturday!  I put her down for her nap and she went to sleep but i stopped patting her after 20 minutes and pop eyes opened and wide awake.  I absolutely hate it i feel like such a mean mommy!  Can anyone related............

[Maffoos mummy]

Bless you it's a pleasure to try and help!! You're making MASSIVE progress please do stick with it!! It's quite normal to have regressions when teaching a new sleep teachnique,think of it as her just making sure you REALLY want to do the new routine!!! I'm not sure what the official advice would be but personally I'd leave the 5am one at the moment as you've got enough on your plate anyway. Once naps are totally sorted she may well sleep later anyway as she won't be OT anymore. Don't feel like a mean mummy,we've all been there done that and it's just because it's so hard listening to your LO cry,but you've 100% got her best interests at heart and both of you will be more rested and contented when you come out the other side. I don't know why she's struggling with naps in particular,all I can say is 45 minute naps are so common so she's probably just got into the habit of having them. You're doing stirling work,keep it up!!! 

[Aly Mac]

Hi Krista, and welcome 

I've been following, can you post your EASY routine for me to look at.  You've had some great advice so far, but if I look at the routine, I may be able to help you. getting an insight into the times and hours of sleep, may help me advise you on the early wakings (I've had my fair share!). 

hope all is still going well.

don't forget too, we have a section on PU/pd if you have any other specific questions on that.

[Krista Goebel]

Thank you!  Our Easy schedule is.  Awake 6:30am sometimes 7am nurse
                                                         7-7:30am Breakfast solids little cereal
                                                          Activity until 8:30-9am
                                                           9am nap
                                                           Lasts 45min to 2 hours
                                                           10:30-11nurse
                                                            12-12:30lunch solids
                                                            1:30-2:00nap
                                                             lasts same as above
                                                             Nurse 3:30-4pm
                                                             5:30-6pm dinner
                                                              7-7:30 asleep
                                                    wakes up at 3:30am more times than not
                                                    wakes up at 5:30am allways do pu/pd until 6:30am but last night i woke her at 5am and she slept until 7am

Just to let you know this was a night not long ago (two weeks) before i started easy.  I did this for a little over a week before a friend gave me the book.
           
                                                         Asleep 8:15pm, awake 9pm, asleep10:40am, awake 1:00am, asleep1:14am, awake 2am fell asleep on own happened rarely but did this night, awake 4am, asleep 4:15am, awake 5:20am, asleep 6:44am,  woke up 8:30am then had nap at 11:15pm until 12pm then napped at 3:10pm until 4:22pm.  She has allways woke up at around 5:30 am is when my husband gets up to leave for work. So yes there has been major improvement so far that was so crazy i was about to loss it!  Thank god for This book!  Im very greatfull for the changes allready but i want to keep going and improving.  I also have to go back to work in a little over 2 months so i want her to be a independant sleeper for the sitter.  Thank you so much for any advise you may have!!  Krista 

[Aly Mac]

Krista,

you say for the naps anywhere from 45min to 2hrs.  is it the days that she has a short nap in the afternoon, that she wakes?  If so, she could be overtired.  if she takes a short nap, you have to compensate by not keeping her up as long before the next otherwise OT and then you get another 45nap and so on.

as you are new to easy, I would keep going, logging the days and let us know if the nw are worse with the shortnaps. also adjust as per what I said with any short naps.

  hope that helps a little.

[Krista Goebel]

Hi thanks for your help.  We had a really bad night last night.  She woke every hour.  I stayed with her patting for 30-45min after she was asleep.  Im exhausted to say the least.  How frustrating.  But i have to keep going on cause i don't know what else to do which is a good thing.  I had her sleep until 6:30am and then she had a two hour nap at 8:30am.  She had good naps yesturday 2 hours each.  The book says that the 5th day/night there can be a set back and you can have a bad time.  The 5th day/night wasn't that bad so mabey her 13th night was the fright night.   Im really hoping so cause i don't know if i can servive another night like last night.  Thanks again!

[Krista Goebel]

Hello.  Okay i'v had a few naps and a shower and i feel a little more human now.  So I do believe that she is way overtierd cause shes allways tierd, showing window signs, has little baby bags under eyes (so very sad).  I just thought that with time it would just get better as i follow the routine.  So if she is still tierd after a nap even if it is a two hour nap can i put her down for another one?  I think i read in the book that you should wait at least 30 minutes between naps?  Then i read somewere else that you have to keep them awake to get the routine down.  So just a little confused?  How late is to late for a nap?  Should i put her to bed at 6pm not 7pm if shes showing signs and has only been up for an hour or 2?  After reading your reply i put her down for a nap an hour early and let her sleep an hour longer, 3 hours total then i woke her to nurse.  I don't know if that was a good thing to do.  Book says no longer than 2 hour naps.  So she napped for a total of 5 hours today and could of done way more im sure.  Im going to feed her dinner soon and get her to bed at 6pm and cross my fingers and see what happens tonight.  Please let me know what you think.  Thank you.

[Maffoos mummy]

Hi again,it is very frustrating when you have setbacks and it's often so difficult to know what to do at the time when you've got a screaming OT baby on your hands! When you have an "off day" it's hard to say exactly what you "should" do re naps the following day as it really does depend on your LO. Through trial and error I figured out if my ds had a really bad nights sleep I'd have to let him sleep a lot more than normal the following day,which would then kind of reset his clock for the next day. (He is still like this now) However,some babies would then be up all night if they've had loads of sleep,even if it's to compensate for a bad night....so basically what I'm saying is follow your instincts,put your baby down for sleeps when you feel like she needs them but do monitor the nighttimes. I kept an EASY log for ages as this really helped with the confusions you're having a the moment as I could see how extra long/short naps affected his nighttime sleep.  If you get a good nights sleep tonight (fingers crossed!!) try to get back on routine tomorrow. Let us know how you get on!

[Aly Mac]

Great advice from Mafoo's mummy.  when they are ot, somedays you just need to give them all the rest they can get.  definately let her sleep longer when she is ot - at 9months it wont' be too much of a problem if she is late for her feed.  she will wake if she is that hungry.  don't forget the book is talking about a younger baby, and one that is not ot, so you need to defianlty follow your instincts.  you are doing great!

how did last night go?

[Krista Goebel]

Hello i have an other question im not sure if i just introduced a prop!!  Tonight when i was doing our wind down ritual it triggered me that all the questions i ansewered in the book said that there may be something wrong with our bedtime ritual. Because she just seemed to be really over excited and hard to settle. Then when i would lay her down she would toss and turn alot before falling asleep. Also before bed she wasn't feeding as much as before which was making me think she was hungry at night but i never fed her all night and she wasn't doing hungry cries. Anyway tonight i wanted her to nurse more so i made her latch on and i patted her bum and shushed her as she nursed. She nursed with out popping off but she started to fall aslleep. She nursed more than she has at bedtime in a while. I swaddled her and her eyes were open and she was moving a bit so she was awake when i laid her in her crib and she fell asleep fast with out flipping around. But now im wondered i used the boob as a prop which i am trying to break that habit. But then why do you nurse right before bed and not nurse before the naps. She goes down alot easier for naps then she has been for bed time. Then now that i think about it the nights that she slept really well was nights she got sleepy from nursing. I might just be over reacting and worrying for nothing its just i've invested so much into this allready i don't want to be inforcing something that was the bad habit to begin with. You know what i mean? Anyhow i think she will sleep way better tonight because the book says a restless baby at bed time wakes alot during the night and i really need alot of sleep. I was really lossing it.  So please let me know what you think.  Do all babies get sleepy and relaxed with there bed time nurse?  Will she become dependant on it and then i will have a harder time getting her down for naps and have a hard time getting her to sleep when its time to ween...................