Baby falls asleep during feed...

[jjp]

I have a one week old daughter and have been trying to implement 3 hour EASY.  However, when I wake her for feeds, she is drowsy (her eyes often stay closed) and she only manages about 15 minutes on the breast.  I have sometimes put her back in her cot, where she then protests that she's still hungry, or change her, which wakes up a bit more and then I can complete the feed.  But I don't feel happy doing these, has anyone had this problem and what would you suggest?

[Mum of 3 + 2 stepkids]

Hi, i think for one week old 15 mins is quite a lot. Babys really don't drink that much in a day, i was told breastfeeding helper at hospital that the first day or two lo's only drink 1 teaspoon of milk a day.

[Erin (redstarfalling)]

Hi there!  Welcome and congratulations!!  This is actually quite common.  A lot of babies are quite sleepy for the first few weeks.

Here's a link about EASY in the first few weeks:
https://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=64627.0

And this has some suggestions about sleepy babies:
https://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=63428.0

Try for lots of skin to skin contact, use breast compression (here's another link):
https://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=88759.0

Nothing wrong with changing her between sides, either.  You want her to get a full feed - you're not being mean!   It's important for both her and for your supply to get full feeds early on - burping, changing, chatting with when she gets sleepy are great strategies. Also, 15 min might be enough time for a full feed if she's an efficient feeder.  There are ways to see if she's getting enough (wet and dirty diapers, weight gain...).

How is she doing with number of wet and dirty diapers?  At least 6 a day of each?

[Purplecattypants]

Hi there,

Please be reassured that for a 1 week old, having to wake for feeds is perfectly common. At this age, they get tired very quickly, and would probably sleep for hours on some days if you let them! The younger the baby is, the more time they usually spend on the breast, so a nappy change in the middle to gee her up a bit is the perfect way of achieving this. It is true that they only have very small stomachs at this age, therefore they tend to feed little and often until their tummies grow and catch up.

At this young age, EASY only really applies with regards to the order of things. Obviously with a baby this tiny, the most A time they can handle is a quick nappy change, a bath in the evenings and thats about it! A TRUE easy doesn't really establish until at least 2/3/4months of age. At you lo's age, many breastfed babies can only go 2 hours or sometimes less between feeds. Every day will be different. Some days it will be 1.5 hrs, or even less if the baby's having a growth spurt. Just go with the flow, feed your baby when she is hungry, have some short A time (nappy chnage in the middle), then put her down to sleep. If she still gives you hungry cues when you put her down, feed her again. Your supply is still establishing itself, so the more the baby feeds the better at this stage.

Breast feeding on demand is best for at least the first month. This way, you build up prolactin receptors and therefore the ability to increase supply when she has a growth spurt in the future. Restricting feeds as such a young age can therefore be detrimental to your supply. Some infants will not wake often at this age to feed, as I said before. In that case, make sure you are offering the breast at least every 3 hours, and more often if she asks for it. If she can go longer at night fine, but during the day thats what I suggest you do.

Hope this helps, dont worry this is totally normal, keep up the good work! 

[EllenS]

Ditto to all pp's.  As a mom who wound up with supply problems after the first 5 days, it is SOO important that you work to get a full feeding in her.

Here are some things I learned from my lactation consultant (and from experience):

1) The motion of sucking is sedating to babies, and the Oxytocin in your milk is a sleeping pill.  They are almost bound to fall asleep at the breast, which (as you have found) leads to a cycle of incomplete feeds and fitful sleep.

The oxytocin takes about 6 to 10 minutes to clear the bloodstream, so a good way to wake her up during a feed is to just lay her down for a few minutes.  It feels less frustrating if you think of it as a technique to get a full feed, rather than "oh my lord, why won't this baby stay asleep more than 10 minutes?"  LOL

2)  The "baby doll" technique is one I picked up from a LLL site - support her head and neck in one hand, and cradle her legs on your lap with the other, and very gently sit her up and lay her back one or two times - like one of those baby dolls whose eyes open and close.  Her eyes will open just like the doll and she will rouse up for a little while longer. 

3)  Talk and sing, use her name! 

4)  Find a good "wakey-up spot" to caress - Some people advocate tickling the feet, which seems kind of mean, but I found that gently massaging my lo's hands or ears would keep her roused up just enough to eat.  I guess it was mildly annoying (but not nearly as annoying as being hungry!)  You do want to be careful about touching the back of her head, as this can trigger a reflex to pull back off the breast.

5)  Strip her to her diaper and cool her off a little - I would blow on my lo's face or head, and sometimes dab her face with a cool (not cold) damp washcloth.  Of course, my apartment in the winter has steam heat and it was about 6 million degrees farenheit, so it was not as mean as if it were chilly in the room.

6) Seems counterintuitive, but break the latch!  My lo would always go into a sucking frenzy when I reached down to pop her off.  Try popping her off and on to get her going.

HTH, and congratulations, blessings on your and your family!

[mychaumont]

Hello !
I would like to ask a similar question - my 4 weeks old boy (second son) seems to love to fall asleep while sucking (he does not want the milk - he is not hungry). I have tried to give him the pacifier and he does not want to. I try to implement the easy method with him, but because he wants to fall asleep on the breast, I tried to put him down in his bed and he goes wild. He wants to sleep on me. I am going nuts because with my first son, I have implemented the method and he loved his pacifier and I did not have any problem. What can I do to make him fall asleep on his own. I have tried to put him down and as soon as he cries, I pick him up and calm him...but I could do it 15 times and still, he won't fall asleep.

Thanks,

Mylene from Quebec, Canada

[Mum of 3 + 2 stepkids]

hi mychaumont, try swadling and sh/pat. takes a few goes but it worked for me.

Kate

[Erin (redstarfalling)]

Hi Mylene and welcome!  (I'm from Montreal!!)

Sleepy babies early on is very common.  Is he gaining weight well?  Is he having enough wet and dirty diapers (at least 6 of each per day)?  Those are good ways to make sure he's getting enough milk from you.

You really want to make sure he's getting full feeds.  I'll repost the links from the FAQs (didn't work the last time I did it!).  Here's the one aboue EASY in the first few weeks:
EASY

and about sleepy babies:
Sleepy babies

I'd suggest stripping him down to just his diaper for a feed, and have yourself naked from the waist up.  Skin to skin contact and not being overly warm might help him stay awake for a good nursing session.  If he falls asleep, you can try sitting him up for a burp, changing his diaper, talking to him or stroking his back or feet.  When he seems to have had a good feed, you can redress him, swaddle him and, as Kate suggested, put him down with some shh patting.

Let me know how it's going...

[mychaumont]

Hello Erin and Mum of 3!

Actually, he is eating quite well - he is gaining quite a lot of weight. My problem is I am trying to implement the easy method with him and after the activity, I will try to put him in his bed but he wants to be breastfed until he falls asleep - but he does not want the milk - he is not hungry. I tried to give him the pacifier and make him fall asleep but he does not want it.
Is the best technique would be to pick him up and calm him down as many times as it would take for him to fall asleep ? Am I giving up too fast ?

Thanks !

M. from Gatineau

[Erin (redstarfalling)]

It would probably be better to try to calm him in his crib.  Are you doing the 4 S's?  (I think there are 4.... )  If you're determined to use the pacifier, then you can keep on with it....but not all kids are as interested.  It also tends to be the "quicker and easier" method for some babies - it might be that if you keep on with patting and shushing him, it'll take longer, but you'll get there.  Have you checked the sleep board for more ideas?

[EllenS]

Pickup/putdown is not recommended for babies under 4 months - it is too stimulating.  Using the 4 "s" and pat/shush as Erin said is the BW technique for your age baby.

Hugs!  Wanting to nurse to sleep is normal, it is their instinct.  It often just doesn't work out best for the TWO of you in the long run.  (Just like their instinct to put everything in their mouth is not always in their best interest)

[Mum of 3 + 2 stepkids]

I struggled for weeks trying to get my lo to sleep. Then at 10 weeks started the sh/pat and within a couple of days was getting better. He's almost 12 weeks now and i still sh/pat him but now it only takes 5 mins max and he is much calmer.

Sometimes it seems forever but stick with it will get easier

Kate

[mychaumont]

Hi guys,

Thanks for your answers. I am not familiar with the acronyms like the 4 "s"...Could you please explain it to me ?
So far, we use the pacifier only to calm him since he does not want it to sleep (which is fine by me as long as he can find a way to fall asleep). I have tried the hushing and pathing technique -it was hard at first, but I think I am getting here. As of yesterday, there are already some great improvements - for example, he slept in his crib (in our room) for the whole night and only woke up to eat every 3 hours - which is great ! Before, I would have him sleep with us in our bed and he slept so well (of course!).

Hope to hear from you !

Thanks again,

Mylene

[Mum of 3 + 2 stepkids]

Hi Mylene, Sounds like things are getting better. It makes you feel so much better when they can settle. Im putting my lo swaddled in his rocker now, he crys for a few mins and if i don't pay any attention he just goes off. Its great

I don't know what the 4 "s" are either, i'll be watching to find out

Kate

[EllenS]

Oh, I thought you had read the Babywhisperer books!  All these techniques are detailed there, I highly recommend them if you can get hold of them.

Here is the FAQ on how to do pat/shush...
https://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=26672.0

Here is the FAQ on how to develop a good wind-down routine, which includes a description of the 4-s (Set the Stage, Swaddle, Sitting and Shush-pat)

https://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=64277.0

HTH!