Can't seem to extend the 3hr routine

[mumofalice]

Hi there

I posted for the first time in naps a couple of weeks ago as my DD had started to wake at the dreaded 45min mark. I had a couple of responses suggesting that she was ready to increase her A time - she's coming up to 22wks (or 5 months) and is still pretty much on a 3hr routine. I know that she should be extending to 4hrs by now but after an hour of awake time she was yawning and rubbing her eyes so I was reading her cues and putting her back down to sleep. After reading the BW book when she was 10 wks old we worked really hard (sh/pat - with tears from both of us!!) at teaching her how to sleep. She's been a fantastic night sleeper right from the beginning and with the advice of BW we also got a good napping routine going . . . however, the napping isn't working so well anymore (nights are still good that it makes me feel guilty even asking for help) and I seem to have a permanently grisly baby during the day - I don't know what to do for her anymore.

Over the past couple of weeks (since the short naps appeared) I've been working to extend her A time - and we sometimes manage a 3.25hr EASY - but the naps haven't improved. I've managed to up her A time by 15mins (and even 30mins today) but we're still fighting the 45min wake up. The thing that upsets me the most is that I can see (or at least I think I can) that she's still tired - she doesn't wake up happy and while I sh/pat to try and resettle her she is sucking her thumb, rubbing her eyes and pulling her ears. We sometimes manage to settle and then she wakes at 10mins and then we go thru the process again a couple more times - I haven't managed to settle her for another decent length nap as yet.

DD is exclusively BF (inc. DF of EBF) - and the other problem that I have is when she does wake up she shows signs of hunger - think she's so used to EAS(Y)E that she in her mind she eats when she wakes - or am I just going mad?!!

I feel a bit stuck - I seem to spend half my day at the moment trying to send my DD back to sleep when I think maybe I should just be enjoying our time together - the problem is when she is awake she seems so unhappy anyway . . .

Any advice would be appreciated. Have to go - right on cue she's waking early from her 2nd nap (she woke early from the first one too!)

[Lisa1022]

Hi mumofalice. I don't really have any advice for you, but I wanted to write because I have some similar issues to you.

My little girl is almost 4 months, and she is on a solid 3-hour EASY.  She gives very clear cues an hour after she wakes/eats.  I was thinking of extending her A time because she has had a recent setback in her night sleeping (and I have a post and lots of support helping me there).  I thought maybe she was ready for 3.5 EASY

However, I feel like when I extend her A time like I just did this morning, she has a harder time going to sleep and she might actually wake up earlier.

I'm wondering if maybe your LO isn't ready for more A time and that's why she's waking up after 45 minutes.  If this is the case, I won't try to push my LO for longer A time until she's ready.

I'm curious to see what other people have to say.

[Grace's Mom]

Waking up at the 45 minute mark is an indication of needing more A time.

When extend A time it is to be done gradually.  10 minutes or so every few days.
With any routine change you should pick 1 thing to work on and then stick to it for a good 3-5 days.
Their bodies need that time to adjust.  With in that time so craziness may occur but it's normal.  Just be 100% consistant and wait it out.  After that time frame if things haven't improved then I'd reevaluate.
But consistency and time are key.

-Melissa

[mumofalice]

Thanks for your replies Lisa and Melissa

When I've extended DD's A time she seems to go to sleep quicker as if she is more tired. Usually she chats/moans herself to sleep for a good few minutes (she's doing it right now!) but when her A time has been extended she's pretty much gone straight off.

I have to watch more closely for her cues - she used to be a 'yawner' but now she rubs her eyes or gets grisly all of a sudden - like someone has turned her awake switch off!!

I have been extending A time gradually - we've been doing the extra 15mins for over a week now but I feel like I'm getting nowhere - and I seem to have an unhappy LO on my hands whenever she is awake OR I'm spending a lot of time trying to get her back to sleep.

We did try to extend A time a few weeks ago - before the 45 min wake ups started, so that we could start working towards the 4hr routine - however, DD ended up OT and her naps suffered so we just went back to our old routine. I popped onto the boards for advice at that point and read a post suggesting that sometimes BF LOs don't always make it to the 4hr mark - as we were doing ok at that point I thought the best advice was 'if it ain't broke, don't fix it'.

However, now we have the 45min wake ups - I guess it is broke after all . . . therefore I am trying to fix it - just not doing very well at the mo!!

[Grace's Mom]

When they fall asleep very quickly like that, it's a wonderful thing 
It means you hit that window of opportunity right on!
Great job.

Melissa

[mumofalice]

Hi Melissa

Love the pic of your LO eating snow BTW

Thanks for the words of support - didn't realise that I'd hit the window of opportunity as DD has always taken a while to 'talk' herself to sleep. However, I did think it was lovely that she fell asleep almost as soon as her head hit the pillow as it were . . . however, we still suffered the 45min wake up.

Today has been a much better day tho (probably just a one off LOL!) - despite having 45min wake ups at 1st and 2nd nap DD managed to resettle (with a helping hand) within 10mins and both naps were extended by 45mins plus . . . which in turn made for a much happier LO. Had to go out this afternoon so 3rd nap ended up being in the car seat (between 30 and 60mins off and on I guess) but it didn't result in a meltdown and now DD is having her catnap before we start our bedtime routine - bless.

We've probably been doing a 3.25hr routine today so as you can imagine I'm feeling much more positive - it's been so lovely to have a happy LO - breaks my heart when she's so upset and when all I seem to be doing is trying to send her back to sleep!

No doubt I'll be back on here tomorrow with a new 'problem' - being a mum is so funny . . . just when you think you might have it worked out something new happens! I love it - best job in the world despite the heartbreaks (every time I see my LO upset - I'm such a softie these days!!) there are so many rewards. Today my highlight was DD laughing out loud as we did 'row, row, row your boat' - makes everything seem worthwhile!

[Grace's Mom]

Glad you were able to extend those naps!
Wonderful news.

Let me know how things go.

Melissa

[mumofalice]

Hi Melissa - if you're reading this!

After my fab day last week with extending naps I had to get up to settle my DD at 2.30am - first time in weeks LOL!!

Still not managing to get to a 4hr EASY but we do seem to be getting at least one decent nap - usually the first one of the day (isn't that always the case?) and it seems to be between 1.5 and 2 hrs. Unfortunately we've been out and about of late - so I've been letting DD have the first nap in her cot and then getting out afterwards and then she will have shorter naps in her pram or carseat. It's not ideal I know, but I'm trying to go with the flow . . . She will still meltdown when she gets OT - and she can do that in what seems to be a split second LOL.

Not sure we're ever going to get to the 4hr routine - we seem to start off the day on a 3.5hr routine with the help of that decent 1st nap and then we end up with shorter routine times as the day goes on - am sure my DD is programmed to take in a certain amount of feeds in a certain amount of hours - doesn't matter how her day has gone she always seems to eat between 4.30 and 5.00 and then after a cat nap will almost certainly wake at 6.30 on the dot for her last feed before bath and bed!

I'm just trying to read her cues and make sure we're following EAS wherever possible rather than watch the clock - hope I'm doing the right thing . . . as does everyone LOL!

I did have another query and wondered if anyone could 'help'. When I go into my DD in the morning I get a big smile but I need to get on with feeding ASAP as she's hungry after her mammoth sleep! However, she seems to wake up from naps quite upset - and doesn't seem to be happy until she's been fed - I wonder if I'm feeding her too soon as we might be able to stretch that routine if we could do some low key A when she wakes - but she always seems to be in a bad mood when she wakes up until she's eaten (even if she doesn't seem to take what I'd call a 'full' feed - or maybe she's just a more efficient feeder than I think she is?)

Just wondered if it was 'normal' (for want of a better word) for a LO to wake up grumpy cos they're hungry - think she must have inherited my appetite - I guess I probably get grumpy when I'm hungry too!!

Look forward to hearing your thoughts.

Berni x

[Grace's Mom]

You don't have to feed the second your lo wakes.
Even now, my dd wakes at 6am and we don't have breakfast until 7am.
It's a bit different when your lo is younger, but you can adjust accordingly.  Maybe wait 30 minutes....wake up, get dressed, snuggles, etc. then feed. 

She might also be waking up grouchy due to not enough sleep vs. needing food.
Maybe the food is just a comfort, iykwim. 

I know you have mentioned that you've been going out after the 1st nap.
Even when home does she take a short nap after a good 1st nap?
How long is the 2nd A time?
How long is the 2nd nap...when home?

Melissa

[mumofalice]

Hi Melissa

I didn't think that I had to feed my LO the moment she wakes - but she seems to think so!! I'm beginning to wonder if by being so worried about not doing AP I've ended up doing it anyway!! When DD wakes in the morning (usually 7-7.30am) she's generally in a good mood - but the moment I pick her up she starts to try and latch on to me - which is fair enough as she's generally been in bed for 12 hrs and slept all night (DF usually between 10 and 10.30pm). It doesn't take long after naps for her to want to feed either - maybe it is a comfort thing - but I did wonder if it has anything to do with her being BF and me being the one (prob 9 times out of 10 due to DH being at work) going to get her when she wakes - ie being able to smell the milk? Also, when we first starting doing EASY and she got into decent nap times I often had to wake her to feed (at the 3hr mark) and I wonder if I've conditioned her into thinking that it's time to eat when she wakes up. Any thoughts?

First nap still seems to be going well . . . I need to do a bit more observing with the later naps - we've had so much on of late that we've been out after the 1st nap most days - I know it's not ideal and I could do with a good couple of days at home. DD still seems to be tired after 1hr to 1hr 15mins of awake time (inc. feed, nappy change, etc) - so we're still pretty much on a 3hr EASY as far as feeding goes (sometimes we get 3.25hrs and 3.5hrs once or twice a day) - not sure if I should worry about that or not as LO is now 23wks . . . however, she is quite small and I do wonder if maybe she wouldn't get enough food if we did make it to 4hrs. Will be starting weaning in a couple of weeks - maybe that will make a difference?

Thanks for your support - and look forward to reading more of your thoughts soon . . .

Berni x

[Grace's Mom]

My lo, when smaller, always wanted to feed right when she woke up.
I worried that I conditioned her to need that, but eventually she stopped needing to eat the minute she woke.
It could of course be because she smells your milk as well.  I know at night, when lo's are waking out of habit, the best thing to do is have the dad go in or someone other than mom (if bfing) because they can smell the milk and will want to eat. 
I wouldn't worry too much.

My lo was really small too.  Still is.   She did fine with the switch over.  She did it a bit later than most....at almost 5 months.
When they move to a 4 hour EASY they compensate by drinking more at the 4 day time feeds.  It may take a few days for your lo to adjust but she'll be hungry enough to take a nice big feed and will on her own regulate her feeds. 

Is your lo still taking 45 minute naps? 
If so, I would really work on those A times....extending them. 

Melissa

[Lisa1022]

Wait -- My LO eats as soon as she wakes up in the morning and from naps.  In fact, she will basically sleep until she is hungry.  She might sleep for 2 hours, and then wake up crying to be fed.  I didn't realize there was an issue with this.  I thought that was how it was supposed to happen.

Melissa - when you say your LO did that when she was younger, what age are you talking about?

[Grace's Mom]

Don't worry about it...it's not really an 'issue'.
It only becomes a 'issue' if they wake early and then automatically want to eat just because they've woken up instead of wanting to eat due to hunger, iykwim.

Hmmm....not sure when it ended for us....as she got more use to solids and we went to less bottles, etc. she stopped needing a feed after waking.

Melissa

[Lisa1022]

Ok, so you're talking about after 4 months. 

I feel like willa will sleep and sleep and sleep and then wake up starving hungry.  And she gets frustrated if I don't move fast enough after she wakes up.  Little stinker!

[julesd]

Hi
I'm also having tons of trouble switching to the four hour easy routine.  My DS is almost 5 months old (and over 16 pounds) so definitely old and big enough for 4-hour EASY.

I am trying to use the transition schedule on pg. 230 of "The BW Solves All Your Problems."

The problem is that my DS can't sustain more than an hour of awake time during his first awake period (at 7 a.m.).  This has been a pattern ever since I can remember.  He is tired and cranky about 45 minutes to an hour after he first wakes up in the morning.  So his first nap is usually around 8 a.m.  This nap only lasts about 45 minutes (alas).  But I just can't keep him up any longer.  Today I managed to get him to 8:25, but he had a meltdown (nap still only lasted 45 minutes).

He can manage 2 hour awake periods for the rest of the day.  It's just that very first morning one.  Anyone else notice this in their LO?  Any suggestions?