Should I go back to 4 feeds? - 3rd Update - big dinner did the trick!

[EllenS]

Well, it's been a little over a week since I started giving dd a midmorning solid snack instead of bf.  Some days it seems like we do nothing all day but stuff food into her, but she is still waking erratically anywhere from 2am-4:30 am for a night feeding.  She always attacks the breast and drinks voraciously at that feed, obviously very hungry.  She then wakes up ready for bf "breakfast" between 6-7 am and takes a good, but not huge, feeding.  We bf 3x per day, and she drinks about 10-12 oz of cow milk during the course of the day.  She just had her 12 month doctor visit, and she is 75% in height and 22 - 25% on weight (same curves since birth). 

I asked the dr. about the night feeds, and he said it was normal, and as she gets bigger her stomach will get bigger and she can hold more food.  He also said that in addition to her being VERY active with mobility, babies are much more metabolically active than adults - basically he says she needs it.

That's all fine, but she still asks for a bf after her midmorning snack, which is right before naptime.  While I'm trying to put her down, she makes her sign for "nurse" and for "milk" and protests.  However, she generally falls asleep for a 45 minute nap after about 5-10 minutes of PUPD.  This makes me think she is not truly hungry and just wants to nurse to sleep.

What do you ladies think?  Should I top off her midmorning snack with some bf?  If she gets more milk during the day, it might help her do without the night feed, right? 

I don't want to be aggressive with the night weaning because she is so skinny and because of my history of supply issues - I'm paranoid about her going hungry.  I'm not even sure the "subtracting minutes" method would work because if she falls asleep before she is finished, or I try to pop her off when she slows down, she gets hysterical and won't go back to sleep.  But a year of night feeds is wearing me down.

Maybe all I need is some encouragement.
TIA!

[Erin (redstarfalling)]

Well....no way to really know without trying... so, I suggest, if you want to give it a try, go for it and see if you can settle her overnight with pu/pd if you're giving the mid morning feed.  What about nursing when she wakes to avoid that association?  I did that and offered a solid snack right after.

You can always go back.....

[EllenS]

Just wanted to let you know that the routine of 3 meals, 1 snack plus 4 bf worked to let her sleep through (on the days I've managed to keep her on a good routine).  She needed the solid snack AND breastmilk, not the solid snack INSTEAD of breastmilk.  A very hungry girl!

We've had several 12 hour nights lately.  Thanks!

[lilmonkey]

Ellen - did you have to do anything to get your lo to sleep through at night or did she naturally did it once you were able to get enough calories into her?  I ask b/c I think I'm thinking that mine is using me as a pacifier at night as he still on 4/5 milk feeds a day plus 3 meals (2-3T each).

[EllenS]

We had gotten into a pretty bad APOP situation from her teething and us moving into a new home, so we did PUPD - it was pretty intense for a week or so, but then she had settled down into pretty much just one feeding at night.  Then when we got her enough calories, she dropped that feed.  She is a bit older than your lo and takes much larger meals.

She still does wake sometimes at night (we have noisy neighbors) but goes back down with just one or two PUPD.

[lilmonkey]

How big are the meals?  My only hestitation is that he needs the feed but I'm so confused as he doesn't suck as hard and long as he used to.  So do you think I should wait?

[EllenS]

Well, all her other feeds that she dropped, she did spontaneously.  It's hard to tell how much she's eating exactly because she mostly self-feeds at this point, but when we were doing jars over Christmas vacation, she would sometimes take 14 ounces of jar food in a day plus some finger food (fruit or breadsticks, cheerios, etc) at each meal. 

Is he waking erratically between a range of times, or at pretty much the same time every night?  Does his waking time change if the time of his last bottle changes, or if he ate more or less during the day?  Will he eat more solids if you offer them?

If his wakeups are erratic and vary according to how well he ate or when his last bottle was, then it probably is true hunger.  You can always try offering more solids at each meal, and/or concentrating high-calorie foods at suppertime (like banana or avocado).

But 7 months is not that old, not unusual for babies to still need a night feed at that point.

[RachelC]

Way to go Ellen!

Mimi - Is it one feed overnight?  I wouldn't push it at 7 months.  Ellen's dd is about twice as old 

[lilmonkey]

Yes, it's one feed overnight.  He's wakes roughly between 4-5 am although sometimes he will wake at 1-2 am as well.  He will eat about 2-3 T each time 3X.  I'll try to increase his calories for the time being then.  Guess I will wait till he's older.  DH will be happy to hear this as he's dreading have to try settle without being properly equipped!   

So hard to tell when to wean.  The last thing I want is for him to cry for hunger and not get fed.

[EllenS]

Well, we got some nice long nights, then she had a bad reaction to her MMR shot (2 days of fever, hunger strike, nursing round the clock).  She hasn't made it thru without a feed since, although fortunately the night feed has now fallen at "dreamfeed" time 10:30-11 pm, ie 4 hours after her bedtime milk.

I'm going to try adding a solid snack in the afternoon, see if that helps.

[RachelC]

Could you possibly try doing a dreamfeed and then phasing it out?  Might be hard with a baby over a year old 

[EllenS]

Well, I'm really confused b/c I was re-reading BWSAYP and Tracey definitely recommended LESS snacks rather than more.  Unfortunately her example schedule seemed to be for a somewhat older lo who is on 1 nap - with the suggestion of "distracting" at midmorning and moving lunch earlier.  Well, there's no distracting her when she's hungry and I'm trying to put her down for a nap!

Since she already takes cow's milk, I'm considering switching to a bottle for the night feed and then watering it down.  Not sure what to do right now, I'll see how it goes the next couple of days.  She ate a HUGE dinner (including, among other things, a whole banana and nearly half an avocado), nursed well before bed and took a large top-off from her bottle.  So I have hopes.

[EllenS]

6:30 - 6:45 without a feed.  A couple of squawks during the night that she self-settled from, one NW around 11:30 that daddy re-settled her (fussing not crying, maybe 20 minutes to settle).

Is it OK to feed a baby banana and avocado every night for the rest of her life?

[Samuel's mum]

I'd vote YES!

[RachelC]

With those results.... yes!