want to stop early morning nursing session for 1yo

[anyamom]

hi,
anya is now 12.5months old and bf twice :
once in the early morning at about 4:30~5am -ish
then at night 6:30pm-ish

i have dropped the mid-morning and mid-afternoon nursing sessions over the past two months and started giving her cows milk.

i usually give her cereal in 6oz milk as breakfast, then 4oz yoghurt in the afternoon, so that is about 10oz milk.
i understand i need to give her 20oz milk thruout the day till she is 2yo.

i was wondering how i can drop the early morning nursing session? and whether i can replace it with maybe 2oz or 4oz cows milk... not sure what to do? should i be dropping it altogether and increasing the amount of milk at breakfast time?

would appreciate any advice

thanks/ sudhi

[Vicku]

Hi Sudhi!
I have no real advice on how to cut out the bf at LOs age, but just thought if you don't get anough support here you might be better off posting this question on the bf board to get help from the right people on that issue??
There seem to be different guidelines in different countries to how much milk they need and til what age.
My LO is 17 months and has 2 bottles of about 9-10 oz each. One at wake up 6/7 am and one at bedtime. Would you prefer to stop the very early am feed altogether or replacing it with cows milk? Or perhaps cut it out, then give cow's milk a little later before breakfast? Does she go back to sleep after the am feed?
My LO has a bottle shortly after wake up then breakfast (porridge or cereal) about an hr and a half later and is fine with that, but then again they're all different...
Sorry I can't be of more help, but wishing you good luck though!

[JKL]

OK, this thread may get moved to the BFing board, but here goes:  WIth my lo, the morning feed was last to go.  I had no success with replacing it with a cup of milk, cause he was just like, what's this, give me the boob, LOL.  So, I ended up having him do a distracting activity first thing in the AM, to get him out of the nursing-first-thing pattern.  So, I'd get him up and get him dressed, and then instead of going to the place where we would have nursed, we did something like taking laundry out of the dryer (he loves that), or sweeping the floor (he has a little broom, another thing he enjoyed).  Then, we'd do breakfast.  After about 2 weeks, I just got him up and went straight to breakfast, no distraction needed.  I added in an extra cup of milk during the day, but you could do it at breakfast if you wanted to.  The only thing is, my ds was almost a yr older than yours when we did this, and his first feed was a bit later (more like 6:30/7:00 AM)... Do you guys get up for the day at 5am?

[anyamom]

thank you for your replies ladies.

nope we dont get up for the day at 5am. she normally goes right back to sleep after nursing at that time, then gets up around 6:15 ish.

so i would actually prefer to substitute that bf with cows milk, rather than cut it out totally, as i think she is hungry at the time.

she has never had the bottle barring the very early early days which are distant history now. i find myself wishing i had given her bottle sometimes, so that i could just give her bottle of cows milk in the am and then she could sleep right back. but right now she is on the sipper, which means she has to be awake when she has milk in it...

  not sure what to do

[Vicku]

Do you think she's genuinely hungry or just using the boob to get back to sleep as a habit? Does she have a good bf before bed? I mean do you think she has a big amount of milk? If she only has a small amount (bfing more for comfort than milk) she might be hungry again 4:30/5 am, but otherwise it might be a habit as at her age they usually last 12 hrs. If you want to cut out that early feed altogether I guess you'd have to gradually add more milk/calories to the daytime to ensure she's getting what she needs. then it's the question of how to actually cut it out. PPs strategy seems a good one but only if you're then ready to start the day and I know I wouldn't be at 5 am! Will help you work something out, but hopefully someone else can contribute to the best way to get LO back to sleep without bf. Anyone??

[anyamom]

i do think she is genuinely hungry at the time. we are a bit clustered at dinner time so i feel she doesnt get enough milk before sleeping.

i was thinking, should i start feeding her cows milk for night time milk? that should be more filling and definitely easier to do than a 5am feed?

what do you say?

[Vicku]

It is possible that you'll get more milk into her before bed that way. Do you feel ready to give that bf up too? Does she like cow's milk and usually take quite a lot of it when you offer it? In that case you could try that as a way of filling her up more before bed so that she's not hungry so early in am. Might then sleep longer... I completely understand that you're not keen on continuing the 5 am feed anymore. You've done so well to bf for this long! How long do you leave between her dinner and her bedtime milk?

[anyamom]

well dinner starts at 5pm and can go upto 6pm.
and bedtime bf is 6:30pm or 6:45pm at the latest.
i often feel she doesnt get enough at that time becoz she isnt hungry enough from dinner.

no she doesnt like cows milk much... still developing a taste for it, i would say.

maybe i can drop the night feed and keep the morning one?
i would ideally like to keep one feed for another couple months. cant imagine giving up BOTH feeds at the same time   

thanks for your support !

[JKL]

Hmmmmm, I'm betting the 5 am nursing session is for comfort/routine, not hunger, but it sounds like a fine plan to try and increase her calories in the day/rt before bed, and see if she sleeps longer.  If not, you know you don't have a hunger issue. Then, you'd have a few choices:  You could try and see if DH could settle her back to sleep without the BF (uh, obviously ), or you could do some wiwo (though that would be rough), or you could try seeing if a sippy of cows milk and a cuddle would put her back to sleep, or you could see if you could move that nursing session back like 15 minutes every few days til you're at wake-up time (maybe use a timer or something--people on the bfing board could help with this).  Or--and I have to admit, this is what I did as ds was getting up for the day at 5am with that nursing session when he was your los age--you could just wait it out a bit.  Eventually, ds started sleeping till 6, and then 6:30 before asking for the BF...Sorry, I'm not a ton of help.  But hugs!!!

[anyamom]

hi jkl,
that just might be true!
maybe i in my mommy-mush-perennially-tired-sleep-deprived state in the mornings have convinced myself that dd is hungry at that hour!!!!

re: the morning nursing time
actually she was nursing at 4am-ish till about a month ago. i decided not to nurse her till 5am, and so we have come this far. but if i push beyond 5am , then she doesnt sleep, just keeps tossing and turning. do you think that is out of hunger or habit?

let me try the additional cows milk at bedtime. should i offer bedtime bf as well reducing the time gradually or should i go cold turkey and offer only cows milk at bedtime? what do you ladies say?

[Vicku]

Am I right that you're also in the 2-1 nap transition? Usually once that's sorted more they start sleeping longer in am I've heard, so that might help. I understand why you don't want to give both feds up at the same time. I did one at a time. Better for both of you I think. Actually, I used to bf in evening and then give a bottle after bf to see if she would take some more from there to make sure she got really full for the night. You could try that to start with, or if she won't take it after try giving it before and finish off with a bit of breast. That might then naturally phase out that bf, get her to feed more before bed and then sleep longer in am. Then you could keep the bf in am but, hopefully, at a later hour.

If it's possible to give her dinner an hour earlier, or even half an hour, that will almost certainly make her take more milk too. I know it's hard to know how much they actually drink when you bf, but since stopping I notice straight away if I've given dinner too late as she'll only take half the bottle.
Big hugs! Let me know how you get on X

[anyamom]

hi vicku,
yes we are sort of in the 2-1nap transition, but not in the thick of it as yet

today i gave her dinner 30min before normal time. then gave her cows milk in sippy. then bf her. she had about 1 oz of cows milk, but at least she had some. i feel she did have more milk today as she nursed more as well as had the cows milk.

lets see how she does in the morning.

thanks!
sudhi

[Vicku]

Sounds good... 1 oz is better than nothing... also you could try limiting fluid at dinner time.
hope it goes well! 

[anyamom]

update...
so dd woke up at 5am this morning and i didnt bf her. just patted her. she did fall asleep, but only as long as she was in my lap. the moment i tried to put her back in the crib, she woke up. ended up having her sleep on my lap (with me sitting on the bed) for 1.5hours    . then bf her at 6:30am, then woke up dh (who seems darlingest of all when he wakes up so that i can sleep) who took over and then i slept.

so i am concluding this : i should stop bf her at 5am. i will pat her to sleep and hopefully she will stop waking up at that hour when she doesnt get bf.

does that sound like a plan?

[Vicku]

Yes, that way you're getting her used to no milk at 5 am and the fact that she went back to sleep means she's definitely still tired and need more sleep. Not so fun to sit there for 1.5 hrs though... Try it for a while and see if she stops waking up. If she doesn't, be careful not to make yourself into another prop as you don't want to be doing that every am for ages. Maybe you could then do gradual withdrawal technique so instead of her being on your lap, you've got your hand on her, then sitting next to her, then a bit further away, if you get me? Just a thought, I'm no expert on that as have never needed to do it, just seemed like something that might work rather than PUPD or WIWO which can be a bit more traumatic and since it's only for this wake up.
But try this for a few more days and see how she gets on without am bf.
Well done!