8 month old not settling to sleep anymore

[SaraTh]

My baby has just completed 8 months and in the last month she's learned to sit, crawl, stand, and attempts cruising. With all that happening, she just doesn't settle for any of her sleeps. I cuddle and sing to her till she's drowsy and yawning, I put her in her cot and immediately her eyes are wide open and she's standing up. If I leave her to herself, she practices her accomplishments quite happily. Some days, she gets tired after an hour and cries and then shh-pat gets her off. Some days like today, she's gone 12 hours without sleep and then is OT by bedtime and even harder to settle. Now she's started waking exactly 6 hours after her dream feed and won't settle without a feed then, though that may be connected with the fact that she still has barely any solids and is a big and completely BF baby. Her routine is like this:

E- 7.00 am BF
A- 7:30 am, with some solids at 8.30
S- 10.00 am, for 30-45 minutes. Any longer than this and she refuses to sleep until  night.   

E- 11.00 am BF
A- 11.30 am, with solids at 12.15 pm
S- 1.00 pm, for 1.5-2 hours

E- 3.00 pm BF
A- 3.30 pm, with solids at 5.30, bath at 6.15
E- 6.30 pm BF
S- 7.15 pm

Dreamfeed 10.30 pm. I was going to stop it when she slept through the night a few times just before 7 months, but now I don't know what to do.

This has worked on a few days when I've been so desperate that I've sung her to sleep before putting her down. Before she hit 7 months and all the milestones, she was a fairly good little sleeper who needed just a minute or so of shh-pat before settling down and had occasionally slept through the night. I need to do something really quickly, because apart from her getting OT, I've got a preschooler who's getting increasingly resentful about having to keep quiet so much in the hope that his sister will finally go to sleep! Please help...

[rob1lu2]

Hi and Welcome to the Boards!

I would start off by saying that at 8 months, she is too old for shush/pat. So it makes sense that it sets her off. Tracey says that after 6 months, the shushing is disrupting to them.  Is that what you mean when you say that shh-pat gets her off?

What do you do when you get to the end of the day and she hasn't napped? Do you move bedtime earlier? I would suggest moving bedtime at least one hour earlier for days that she hasn't napped. It sounds like what it happening is that she is getting OT and it is very difficult for her to climb out of that hole once she's dug her way into it.

Is there any reason she doesn't eat much solids? At 8 months she should be eating 3 meals per day. If she's a big baby, and you feel she is waking for a feed in the AM, it's probably time to up her solid intake.

I wouldn't drop the DF yet, as you seem to be working on a few issues. You'll want to drop that pretty soon, though. At this age it could be disrupting her night time sleep.

What would you say her main issues are? That she wants to practice her new tricks so much that she can't sleep? Or that she's OT and can't sleep? What kind of wind down routine do you have with her? It's possible that she needs more of a wind down routine.

Had she been able to get to sleep independently before?

Let me know!
Lu

[SaraTh]

Hi Lu, and thanks for replying. By saying "gets her off" I meant it gets her to sleep. PU/PD is what agitates her, since she keeps hoping I'll rescue her from the cot!
For winding down, I take her to her room half an hour before nap time, we look at books on the sofa for 15 minutes, then I darken the room and sing softly to her till her eyelids droop and then put her in her cot. It used to work earlier and she would drop off to sleep by herself, but since she's started standing she just wants to do that all the time, while winding down and when I put her in her cot.
Putting her in bed an hour early is almost impossible, since my son has sports practice on weekdays from 5-6 pm and I have to be around to deal with scraped knees and the like. I've made him miss it a few times on really bad days, but that upsets him further since he loves it.
She doesn't eat much solids, because she clamps her lips shut. We're making progress there though and in the last week she's gone from eating nothing to having a couple of spoonfuls a meal. I finally figured that she hates bland, sweet tasting things and have started giving her family food, unsalted.
I would say that her main issue is wanting to practice her new tricks. She went through a phase like this earlier when she learnt to roll over, but that ended when she realised she slept best on her tummy. My son was a perfect textbook baby, going to sleep by himself and sleeping through the night at 4 months, so I'm lost here!

[rob1lu2]

Hi Sara!

As for the solids (I'll address that first, since you wrote it last!), have you tried finger foods? I think it's great that you are giving her family food now. That's exactly what she wants! By 8 months they are pretty "over" the bland rice cereal and purees and are ready for graduate foods. My girls hate to be fed, so I put all their food on their tray for them and they go to town. It's possible that your critter would eat more if she could do it herself. She sounds pretty advanced and may like that! It would certainly make mealtimes and feedings more pleasant - and messy! But the increased food may help that EW. Give her two or three days of family food and see if it makes a difference in the EW.

I totally understand about the early bedtimes. It's unfair to your son who enjoys his sports. It's good to know that occasionally you have resorted to it - the early bedtimes, I mean.

Well keep getting her off it that works!

Unfortunately, as for the developmental stuff, it's something you are going to have to ride out. As long as you give her plenty of opportunity to practice during the day - even in her crib when it isn't naptime! - the novelty will eventually wear off. How long would you say it's been going on? When did she start with the madness?

Let me know!

Lu

[SaraTh]

Hi Lu,

I try to make mealtimes a combination of finger foods and food from a spoon, so while she's mashing something on her tray, I get some food into her mouth at the same time. I would have loved to try letting her get on with it by herself, but it takes such a long time to get even a morsel in by herself. I give her plenty of practice on Cheerios which she loves, and she's got a great pincer grip which she uses to drop them on the floor one by one    She's slowly increasing the quantities she takes in and she slept 45 minutes longer than her usual EW last night. Yeah!
Today morning I put her down for her nap and her eyes flew open as usual. I left the room while she got on with the standing up, then when I could see she was really exhausted, I went in and lay her down (on her tummy, which is how she gets to sleep) and ended up holding her ankles down so she couldn't get up again. She'd make feeble attempts to get up, find she couldn't and relax, then try to get up again.... After about 10 minutes she gave up and finally went to sleep. I'm hoping the novelty of standing wears off soon.
All this started a month ago when she learned to sit. We've had a bit of a difficult times with her sleeps on the whole. She was getting on fine at a month old when she fell very ill and was hospitalised. Even after she was back, it was a while before I tried letting her get to sleep all by herself, I'd sit by her cot and pat her till she slept. She got the hang of sleeping on her own again but then we had visitors, she learned to roll over, we had to go out of town, she learned to get on hands and knees ...and at each stage she'd need patting to sleep. At about six months, we'd finally got to a point when I could put her down and she'd roll over and sleep and then the next milestones happened!

Thanks,
Sara

[rob1lu2]

Hi Sara!

They do like to keep us on our toes, don't they!

Good plan with the finger foods. Keep it up as the more they practice, the better they get. I'm assuming your DD is spirited? Right?!

I think putting her down for her nap and letting her go to town is fine. It's basically WI/WO that you are doing, except it sounds like she doesn't cry for you. You are managing her before she gets to that point. Do you let her play in her crib during the day? Dedicate one A time to crib time and see if she works all that standing out. Just a thought.

I want you to know that I'm going to dinner tonight, so am only checking threads but not making prolonged posts. I'm going to read your response a bit more and respond tomorrow!

Good luck,
Lu

[SaraTh]

Hi Lu,

Yesterday was a wonderful day for naps, exactly on schedule, and she settled to sleep without a fuss too. Then from 3 am to 5 am she was up and alert. She wasn't hungry, just wide awake and wanting company. She kept standing up and then crying because I wouldn't come and play. Finally, after two hours she lay down and I was able to do the ankle-holding bit until she slept. I've noticed this happening other times she's slept well in the day too. Should I be cutting down on daytime sleep? Baffled here...
She's a textbook/spirited baby. Spirited when it comes to naps and meals, but a real darling at all other times. I haven't let her play in the crib during the day, because I was afraid it would confuse her about having to sleep there too. Maybe I should try. She gets plenty of standing practice during playtime. Morning nap coming up now and I'm keeping my fingers crossed.

Thanks,
Sara.

[rob1lu2]

Hi Sara,

How much total sleep is she getting? Daytime vs. Night time? It's possible that she is getting too much daytime sleep and that's why she is wide awake from 3-5. My girls sleep total of 13 hours per day - about two hours during the day and about 11 at night. They sleep 75/90 minutes in the AM and 45/30 minutes in the PM. Would you say she's getting on the high side of sleep?

If she wants to crib party btwn 3-5 does she have toys or anything in there that she can entertain herself with?

It sounds like what she wants to practice is standing in her crib, so I would let her do that. I don't think it will confuse her. Sounds like she already wants to use the crib as her play place! Actually it's better that she associate her crib as a nice place to be - not just for sleeping. As she gets older it can be a place for her to hang out and get away from it all.

Let me know how it goes!
Lu

[SaraTh]

Hi Lu,

Last night was good, she slept from 7.15 pm to 6 am with a dream feed at 10.45 pm. She woke up hungry at 6 am, I gave her a very short feed and she fell asleep again till 7 am. She had a reasonably good dinner yesterday, so I'm sure that helped.
On good nap days, she sleeps for 2-2.5 hours in the day (30 minutes in the morning, 1.5-2 hours in the afternoon) but then she's up for 2 hours in the night, giving her a total of 10 hours sleep then, i.e. a total of 12.5 hours over 24 hours.
On bad nap days she sleeps for 1-1.5 hours in the day (30 minutes in the morning, 45 minutes to 1 hour in the afternoon) and then she sleeps for between 11-12 hours at night, giving her a total of 12.5-13 hours.
Now that I'm typing this out and thinking over it sensibly, it looks like she needs only 12.5 hours of sleep. Is that okay for an 8 month old? I was under the impression that it was supposed to be nearer 14.
She does have a couple of teddy bears in her crib, but the first thing she does is fling them out and then start yelling, "MAMAMAMA!!!" I'll try giving her playtime in the crib today and hope she works the standing out of her system before sleep time   

Thanks a lot,
Sara.

[rob1lu2]

Hi Sara,

Glad to hear she did so well last night! That's great!

It sounds like your niblet is trying to tell you something. Mom, I only need 12.5 hours of sleep. It doesn't seem to matter how she gets them - daytime vs. nighttime. That's all she needs. There are averages for ages, but I would say that my critters have been sleeping 13 hours for about three months. So yes, it's possible that your LO only needs 12.5 hours.

Do you log her sleep?

What temperment is she?

Keep me posted!
Lu

[SaraTh]

Hi Lu,

You're right about her needing only 12.5 hours. Yesterday I gave her a shorter afternoon nap and she slept well at night. She gets rather cranky before bedtime on the short nap days, but settles well and sleeps more soundly. I haven't been keeping a sleep log, but the pattern was quite obvious once I sat down and thought it out.
She's textbook/spirited, the spirited only when it comes to sleep. 
I'm letting her have an A time in her crib right now. She's waving toys at me and having a blast!
I'll try shorter naps today too, and see how that works.

Thanks,
Sara.

ETA: I tried pushing her afternoon nap by 20 minutes, hoping that would fix the before-bedtime crankiness, but it turned her into an OT little mess. It took her over an hour to settle down, she just kept standing and standing. Then she started crying and it took a lot of shh-pat to get her to sleep.    She's up now after 45 minutes and looking annoyed. I hope it's just hunger!
I forgot to mention earlier that her self soothing technique is rather ineffective. She tries to suck the crib sheet (the fitted one on the mattress) and apart from not providing a satisfying suck, it also gets soggy and is probably uncomfortable to sleep on. She's never sucked her thumb or fingers. She chews on them occasionally when she's wide awake. She's never taken to bottles either, so probably wouldn't want a dummy. I've tried giving her little sheets and blankets to hold and suck, tried giving her soft toys, but it's not worked.

[rob1lu2]

Hi Sara,

Well it sounds good - and then I saw your edit.  If 12.5 is what she needs, I would keep with that, even if it might mean an earlier wake up the next day. Spirited babies in particular don't usually handle pushed A times too well. You would think that they would, but they don't.

So excited to hear about the crib party she's having! Wonderful!

As for a lovie, maybe a cloth diaper? If she wants to suck on fabric it will probably be more satisfying. If she can roll over, I wouldn't worry about putting it in the crib with her. But that's just my opinion. Do what you feel comfortable with. And keep at it. If she's willing to suck the crib sheet, she could be willing to suck something else. Offer it to her when you comfort her or when you are feeding her so she has the good assocation.

Sounds like you are on track!

Keep me posted!
Lu

[SaraTh]

Hi Lu,

Today was a bit better in some ways. I let her have a 45 minute morning nap so that she could last out until her slightly pushed afternoon nap and that worked well. She settled down well for both, which is great!
At bedtime though, she took longer to sleep and it took half an hour of wi/wo during which she was crying, to get her to lie down. After she lay down, I stood by her cot telling her to sleep in as boring a voice as possible Once she was calm, I stood where she couldn't see me and she went to sleep by herself. Another issue is that she's started separation anxiety and howls if I step out of view even when she's wide awake.
I spread a baby blanket over the part of the crib sheet she usually sucks, and she seemed to like that, since she could scrunch it up a bit more than the sheet. Now that I've seen your post, I'll try the cloth diapers. I have a whole stack in the cupboard, bought before my son was born and scarcely used! I'll give it to her while I'm feeding her.

Thanks,
Sara

[rob1lu2]

Sara,

Sounding great to me!

Keep me posted!

Lu
 

[SaraTh]

Hi Lu,

Things seem to be going well. She has two 45 minute naps every day, and goes to sleep at night reasonably quickly with a minimum of wi/wo. What's even more important, she stays asleep! I'm still doing the dream feed, but she sleeps for about 7 hours after that and it's increasing slowly. No night time socialising any more! She's adopted a blanket as a lovie. Last night the telephone rang and woke her up and she actually got herself back to sleep with just a few whimpers. I'm so proud of her! She enjoys her A time in the crib too.
Thank you so much. I wouldn't have thought things could get better so soon. This is wonderful.

Thanks again,
Sara.