It just got worse ....

[Mama2boys]

Ladies,

some of you know what I have been going through wrt NW etc so I will not repeat that but only tell you whats happenning now.

So I had been strictly following the 4 am diluted feed and proper feed on waking up routine. this had led to a slightly eralier wake-up time for DS 6:30 instead of 7:30) as he used to wake up for a proper feed. daytime sleep has been consistent at 2/2.25 hrs 2 naps - am nap is 1hr 15/30 and pm nap is abt 1 hr.

I had been giving him medised for the last week or so for his croup and teething, but last 2-3 nights  (i have not given him medised or any medi, just bonjela on his gums), he has been waking up at about 11/11:30 and does not go back to sleep for 2-3 hrs, wants to be picked up, is very sleepy, falls asleep but then wakes up crying not fussing but howling every 10-20 minutes.
2 nights (not consecutive - bad croup nights) I did AP and brought him into my bed, I had no energy at all...and that might have made things a bit worse, buts scone last night I have been using PD WI/WO and after 3 hrs we both blacked out....didn't know where the problem is or what to do.

he falls asleep for his naps and night sleep with too much fuss, I read to him in bed and he just turns over and sleeps when he is ready, so not sure its an OT issue. bedtime is pretty much the same every day, the wake-up time is a bit mixed up anything between 6:30-7:30, because of the sleep training and feed issue.

i am almost wishing I had never started sleep training I was happier getting up 2 times giving him milk and letting him go right back to sleep. At least I managed some sleep, this is impossible.

it has taken a lot of energy and courage to post this as I feel guilty of taking everyones time and energy..but don't know who else to turn to.

Mukta

[JennŠ]

Do NOT feel guilty!  None of us would be here if we did not want to give and receive help.  Lecture over.   
I'm running on too little sleep as well today, so just dropping off a ton of hugs!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!   

[lesorl]

Oh Mukta- we've all been there.  I'm sending you lots of ((((hugs)))).  If he falls asleep easily for naps and bedtime, it seems he can't get himself back to sleep when he wakes.  Up for 2-3 hours at night sounds like OT to me, so I would put him to bed earlier.

I'm going to let other more experienced moms give you better advice.

Until then, hang in there.

Leslie

[Mama2boys]

Thanks Jenn and Leslie,

I'll try and get him into bed a little earlier, but he is always in bed by 7 and doe snot fall asleep till 7:30, just keeps wanting me to read to him and turn the pages....do you think I should increase his daytime naps? he is doing 1.15 and 1 hr at presnet.

Thanks,
Mukta

[lesorl]

Mukta,

What does his day look like right now?  When does he go to bed, wake, and nap and for how long?  That'll help me give any advice.

Leslie

[Mama2boys]

Hi Leslie,
Today was like below:
5:45 am milk and sleep
7:30am wake up
8:30 am bfast
9:30 - 10:45 nap
11am snack
1pm dinner
2pm milk
2:30 - 3:30 nap
5:30 dinner
6:30 bath
7pm milk and bed by 7:15
7:45pm fell asleep.

More often that not the day stays pretty consistent and he does fall asleep by 7:30.
On some mornings especially when he wake sup around 4am and i give him diluted milk feed he wakes up for the day at 6:30 and has a full feed. On those days he still falls asleep only at 7:30 and I try and compensate by letting him sleep an extra 15 minutes or so, basically from am nap the latest I wake him up is at 11 and pm nap 3:30.

Thank you for offering help
Mukta

[lesorl]

Mukta-

Your day looks good to me...

Does he always wake at 5:45am?  If so, you could try W2S about an hour earlier for a few days.

As far as the NWs, is it possible he's moving towards 1 nap?  It seems like he's getting about 12+ hours a day, which is a little on the low side but some kiddos need less.

How recent are the NWs?  And did the EW just start?

Sorry I don't know if I'm much help- more questions than answers 

Leslie

[MommaHolmes]

Any idea what would happen if you let him sleep as long as he wants for his naps? Do you think he would sleep too long in the morning and then refuse pm nap - is that why you wake him? (Sorry should have a look at your other posts! Will do that now

Have to say I am not a big fan of waking LOs from naps, especially when OT. I know some LOs need less sleep but you should really be looking at around 13 hours minimum at his age, most are needing 13.5.

Also in my experience, a *slightly* earlier bedtime doesn't make a whole lot of difference as they often just stay awake until normal time. A *much* earlier bedtime (like an hour or so earlier) can often restore sanity - early bedtimes saved my life 

[Colin Macs Mom]

Mukta I'm sure I've asked you this before, but what's his temperment?

[jess, lukeys_mom]

mukta, first of all massive hugs, i know you don't have much energy to keep posting about this but glad you did. we will get to the bottom of this if it takes everybody here!  xxx

second, just thinking out loud, i was wondering if the way you are putting him to bed could be a little bit of a prop situation? in other words he is used to having you there reading him to sleep, and then when he wakes in the night he wants you to be doing something to help him sleep as well?
also i am sorry to ask as you've probably said this before but when he wakes in the night and wants to be picked up, what next? does he then relax to sleep in your arms, or does he want to be picked up and play?

[Mama2boys]

ahh ladies you are the best, here are the answers:

1. He does not always wake up at 5:45, it varies anything from 3-6, if he wakes up closer to 3 or 4, i give diluted feed as am trying to wean him off the NW for milk, but if he wakes up close to 6 I give him proper bottle and let him go back to sleep.
2. His NW have been around for a few months and were essentially for milk, he had got use to 2 bottles in the night. He would take the bottle and go back to sleep. The EW are a result of  sleep training him and getting rid of the bottles, or at least trying to.
3. never tried letting him sleep and wake up on his own, I have a feeling he would sleep for a long nap and it would affect his night sleep. Ds was completely lawless till about 5 months and  the only I was able to put him into a BW day was by fixing his meal times and gently coaxing his with the sleep times as well.
I could try and See what happens if I just don't wake him up, but I am so scared of making it even worser than it is right now and not being able to fix it.
5. he is spirited with a little bit of touchy I think.
6. When he wake sup in the night and wants to be picked he will relax and fall asleep in the arms and wake up as soon as i put him down. Lats night when I did not pick him up and did PD he would fall asleep and then wake up suddenly...it was as if he was really sleepy but not comfortable. He wanted to hold my hand as well. Maybe I have become a prop but for the day naps the nanny puts him to bed and at times he does not need anyone to read to him, he will play with his books and lie down when he is ready. He uses a pacifier, which I sadly introduced when I tried to stop nursing him to sleep.
Hope these answers help you guide me.

Thanks,
Mukta

[MommaHolmes]

Have just read your other thread - it looks to me like your boy has got seriously OT. When you started sleep training he obviously had more disturbed nights and so less night sleep, but he hasn't been able to catch up because his naps are usually limited and his bedtime has not got any earlier. Now that people are recommending that you shorten naps still further I think you are risking things getting worse and not better 

My suggestion (and I know it doesn't fit with the other advice you've been given) is just to let him sleep as much as he needs for a few days. Much of the NW is (IMO) to do with him being very OT. An early bedtime is absolutely vital for sorting this out - maybe if you post an example of what your day looks like we could think about what might work.

I hope this doesn't confuse matters too much. Sounds like you're making progress with eliminating the 4am feed by diluting it but the new NW problems do seem to be about OT rather than feeding issues. He *might* be heading towards switching to one nap but he also might not - when he's this OT it's really difficult to tell.

Laura x

[Mama2boys]

Hi Laura,
You might just be right and at present I am willing to give anything a shot, so could certainly let him sleep as long as he wants for a few days and see how it goes. How many days should I give?

wrt you asking what my day looks like, I am assuming you are asking about Ds daily routine, which is earlier in this post itself...I have tried to make his night sleep time a little earlie but just cant make it work.

Also as an FYI DS has been a poor eater, and only now with the schedules I posted earlier in this thread have his mealtime become half decent, I think food wise I have just about managed a good level of gaps between meals, enough for him to be hungry to eat a decent meal.

Thanks

[Colin Macs Mom]

3. never tried letting him sleep and wake up on his own, I have a feeling he would sleep for a long nap and it would affect his night sleep.

Believe it or not, I would actually recommend doing that for a few days. That would give you a solid idea of how much sleep he would naturally do in a day.

5. he is spirited with a little bit of touchy I think.

Just to warn you Mukta, Colin is spirited too, and sleep training tends to take longer with that temperment. Plus consistency is even more important.

[mari]

I would go cold turkey on the night feed.  I know it's hard but I think that there are too many props for him to fall asleep to.  If I'm reading correctly, he falls asleep when you are next to him, is that right?
If so, then he is still not independantly sleeping, he either falls asleep with you there or with a bottle.