It just got worse ....

[Lissybits]

Hi Mukta,

I soo hope you had a better night last night..
I def agree with the girls about letting DS sleep on a bit for naps in order to catch up on his sleep.
Would you be able to take some holiday from work to start the sleep training? This is what I did with DS at Christmas as it's too exhausting to sleep train in the beginning when you have to go to work.
Then, if I were you, when you are feeling really determined and strong, I would get rid of ALL props - 4am feed AND the dummy (might as well have him crying the once!) and start sleep training . I would also read the bedtime story in a chair in his room so he is completely awake when you put him in his cot.
I have been 'sleep training' (but with lots of AP thrown in )DS since he was about 13 mo old (when I found out about BW if only I'd known sooner ) but it was only at Christmas when I decided ENOUGH was ENOUGH - I mean, he was 2 yrs old and still waking 3 or 4 times per night .
It took about 2 weeks for those multiple NWs to become 1 NW and then another 2 weeks for the NW to vanish altogether. I reckon it will take you even less time as your DS is younger.
We didn't have a night feed to get rid of, but we had  lots of crying initially cos he was so used to coming in our bed during the night.  Almost every night I used to start with good intentions - doing WI/WO and then cave in in the early hours when I was too tired to carry on
If only I had been so consistent last year - I would look 10 years younger now
I wish I was in the U.K - I would come and do the first couple of nights for you - in return for a large cappuccino in Harvey Nicks!!
You can do it Mukta - if I have trained Nick the Greek at 2yrs - you can surely train your DS We will all be here to support you every step of the way. You have to think of it like this - what's 2 weeks of hell if it means you will all be getting a good night's sleep?
Decide on a date and we will be there!!

Lots of love,
Lis xx

Jessica -  love the photo of Colin   Is he eating pizza in his jim jams?  He even looks guilty

[Vicku]

How did last night go hun?

[Colin Macs Mom]

Jessica -  love the photo of Colin   Is he eating pizza in his jim jams?  He even looks guilty

Yes he sure was.    ILs were babysitting, and they actually emailed me photos! 

[Vicku]

Jessica -  love the photo of Colin   Is he eating pizza in his jim jams?  He even looks guilty

Yes he sure was.    ILs were babysitting, and they actually emailed me photos! 

Hilarious! Bet that happens at my parents... 

[Colin Macs Mom]

Jessica -  love the photo of Colin   Is he eating pizza in his jim jams?  He even looks guilty

Yes he sure was.    ILs were babysitting, and they actually emailed me photos! 

Hilarious! Bet that happens at my parents... 

I just can't believe they actually voluntarily sent me photographic evidence! But hey that's what grandparents are for right?

[Mama2boys]

okay ladies, last night was a bit better..but the morning got messed up. So I think OT was certainly at play.

DS slept as expected at 7:30pm...woke up at abt 4 for pacifier and ..back to sleep, but then he woke up at 5 and just would not go back to sleep. cried and cried and howled..I kept trying to pacify him till 5:30 and then just gave in and gave him his bottle of feed he had 6oz and back to slept till 7:30.

I probably should not have given in at 5:30 but carried on pacifying or trying to pacify him for some more time, but had to leave for the airport and DH was not helping at all, he does not believe in sleep training... thinks DS will grow out of it.

But I gave in because it almost felt like CIO, DS would not stop for a millisecond, just cried and cried for about 30min straight...me petting him, rubbing his belly just did not work, he would throw the pacifier out, water was also rejected.........could it really be hunger? How do I differentiate between habit and anger and hunger?

Anyways lets See how tonight goes, if any of you ladies is online please let me know what you think I should do about the feed in the morning should I hang in there and keep trying to pacify him till a respectable hour of 6:30am? or should I give him a feed after 5/5:30am as it might just be hunger?

Oh Lis, I hear you about getting him rid of pacifier at the same time, but without DH supporting me its really hard, I am hoping that once DS can communicate  Little more I will ask him to give up the pacifier...I really don't have the energy to deal with all the issues alone. Work is miserable right now ant taking time off will be really hard.

btw Harvey Nicks is round the corner..well not literally but quite close, I'll get you a cappuccino every day, many times a day if you can sort DS out....

[Colin Macs Mom]

Is he talking at all yet Mukta? How much does he understand of what you say to him?

Have you tried giving him water in the early morning instead of milk?

[Mama2boys]

he does not talk at all..just babbles a bit, but he understands a lot, at least I think so.

I have tried water, he will take a sip and then push the bottle away quite angrily and continue crying....

[Colin Macs Mom]

Well it does seem that he's genuinely hungry eh?     6 oz is a fair bit to take, especially at his age.

Have you been talking to him about how night time is for sleeping and daytime is for eating, etc., anything like that?

[mari]

When you do WIWO, it can be heartbreaking, it's awful listening to them crying and not picking them up, it made me feel so guilty.  Please, please tell yourself that if you give up then it will all be for nothing, all his tears, all your tears are for nothing.  And you are not leaving him, you are teaching him that you are there for him, no matter what, but now is the time to go to sleep.  Say that to him if you think that it will help you and if you think he will understand.
What he will realsie, eventually, is that you are there, and will be there and stay when he needs you, but he must go to sleep until mummy comes when it's time to wake up.

Alex used to take nine ounces 3 times a night, sometimes she would head the bottle then throw it up again! sometimes she would keep it down.  All I know is, she doesn't need it now, not since she has been sleep trained and if you are sure that he is eating enough and he is gaining weight then he shouldn't need it, but perhaps check with your Doc just to be sure

[Mama2boys]

yes ....but he is obviously ignoring that bit of my chattering I thank I will need to increase my talking bout difference betwen night and day with him...
Another reason that makes me thinks he was hungry was the fact that he sucked the bottle dry, normally getting him to take 4oz is a pain!

but just the kind of cry...with previous NW he would take water and go back to sleep or maybe  the pacifier would also work for 5/10 minute but it just wouldn't yesterday.

So its almost like he has given up the 1am feed and no NW but wants milk at 5/5:30? where is the manual he should have come with?

[Mama2boys]

Hi Mari,
I'll check with the doc, but the last time I did he just gave me an indefinate answer that some kids are like that....and some babie sslepe thorugh form the first month!
previous NW DS would take a max of 4oz....

[mari]

So its almost like he has given up the 1am feed and no NW but wants milk at 5/5:30? where is the manual he should have come with?

Oh, I wish there was one!  BWSAYP is the closest thing to one i think!

[Colin Macs Mom]

where is the manual he should have come with?

I still wish I had one!     BW is a good manual though!

[Vicku]

How does he eat in the day hun? Could you also try upping calories in the day?
I hear ya about the dummy thing... you don't have to do it all at once to make him sleep better if you feel you don't have the energy. For some people it might work really well but IMO it might be a bit too traumatic for LO to loose all his security props at once. Maybe I'm just soft, but that's what I would feel if it was my LO. My DD has dummies in bed only and she slept great for ages, just had few problems lately with 2-1 nap switch and OT, but generalyy she's a great sleeper and settles herself brilliantly. Dummies aren't really a prop after babies learn to put them back in themselves anyway, and to help DS realise he can soothe himself with the dummy, you can put the dummy in his hand when you put him in bed rather than in his mouth and let him put it in himself.