Exclusively BF - time to drop DF?

[Vicku]

Totally agree with Shiv! Good luck! Let us know if there's any other questions, and let us know how you get on!

Shiv, I'm also dreading the big bed transition... guess I'll see you on those boards when it's time eh?

[shivi]

Hi Vicku,

I was almost at the point of buying a Thomas the Tank Engine Little Tikes bed over Polish e-bay a few days ago....but have put it off....
We are planning on redecorating his room for his birthday but his cot can stay put until I get my summer hols thank you very much! Oscar can get out (really dangerous stuff from such a height) when not in sleeping bag however, so don't know if I have till summer to wait. We already have a gate on his door etc....so he is used to being in his room and playing in it by himself....but am DREADING the big boy bed!


Once again, Lisa, let us know how it goes....good luck.

Siobhain x

[ElsMom]

Thanks again ladies.  One more question, on the routine.  Here's what we're doing now:

6:00/6:30 wake
7:00 BF
8:30 solids
9:30-11:00 S
11:15 BF
1:00 solids
2:30-4:00 S
4:10 BF
5:15 solids
6:40 BF
7:00 bed

So how do I move up the dinner meal?  I figure if it's any closer to the 4:10 BF, she won't be hungry, either.  And if I'm going to cut out a BF, shouldn't it be the DF?

And how should I work on introducing a lovey if it just distracts her when trying to sleep? 

Now I'm dreading the big kid bed transition.  I'm going to have to get used to this 'change is the norm' thing, huh? 

[BabyBsMommy]

Sorry, I don't have time to read the whole thread right now so I apologize if I'm repeating someone else's advice but i wanted to add my thoughts.
DS wouldn't take a bottle until I tried it at the df.  Is that worth a shot for you?  After he took it in his sleep, he suddenly took it through the day!
I will say that even though he was taking the df from a bottle, it was mostly ebm (topped up with a little formula when I couldn't pump enough for it oh and incidentally he wouldn't take the breast for the df which is why I tried the bottle).  He wasn't taking bottles through the day so as I cut the oz from his df, I added ebm or formula to his solids through the day.  IE, the first oz I took off his df I added to his AM cereal, the second oz to his pm cereal, the third oz to mashed bananas at lunch, etc. etc.  I think I went up to 6 oz through the day as I took them away from the df until the df was done.  Then, I slowly started to take each oz back out of the solids and I guess he just eventually started making up for them via his feeds through the day or through his solids.
Just a suggestion based on what worked for us because I agree, it was hard to find info on weaning the df when it was bm!

[Vicku]

Thanks again ladies.  One more question, on the routine.  Here's what we're doing now:

6:00/6:30 wake
7:00 BF
8:30 solids
9:30-11:00 S
11:15 BF
1:00 solids
2:30-4:00 S
4:10 BF
5:15 solids
6:40 BF
7:00 bed

So how do I move up the dinner meal?  I figure if it's any closer to the 4:10 BF, she won't be hungry, either.  And if I'm going to cut out a BF, shouldn't it be the DF?

And how should I work on introducing a lovey if it just distracts her when trying to sleep? 

Now I'm dreading the big kid bed transition.  I'm going to have to get used to this 'change is the norm' thing, huh? 

Hi again!
Sorry, never saw this post. How are you getting on?
You could try shortening the A time in am and moving everything slightly back as that's quite a long A time, but if naps are working well it might not be something you want to try in case it messes things up. Would you be able to do the solids at 4ish instead of the bf then give a small bf after the solids to sort of incorporate them into the same meal? Don't know, I'm sure you know what would be best and work best in your schedule.
If she's too interested in playing with the lovie now, maybe try again in a months time or so? If you really feel it makes her less interested in sleep then it might not work for her right now. My DD didn't really take to her lovie til she was about 13/14 months, but I know some babies that loved them already at 4/5 months, so they're all different.
Hope you're getting on ok though!

[ElsMom]

Thanks!  The last couple of nights, she has woken before the DF, and I decided to try putting her back down and then getting her for the DF in the middle of that sleep cycle - instead of doing it when she was already awake.  I don't know if that's what's made the difference, but she hasn't woken during the night since I started that.  It seems a bit ridiculous to put her back to sleep and then wake her 20 minutes later, but hey - it's working!  Plus, it's moved the DF up to 9:30, which gets me more sleep and she seems fine to go through until 7 for the next feed (knock on wood!!). 

Her first A time is long, and it varies based on when she wakes.  She's so spirited that I never get tired signs, so I just have to see how naps go and adjust from there.  I'm starting to think that now the time of the nap is more important than the A time - 9:30 and 2:30 seem to be the sweet spots, whether she wakes at 5:45 or 6:45. 

I think I'm going to leave the DF at 9:30 for a week and see if she stops the early wakings, and if not, I'll work towards 9:00, try to reduce to one side, and then see how she does.  If she starts waking at 4:00 am or something for a feed, then I'll try the bottle suggestion - thanks BabyBsMommy!

[Vicku]

Good to hear it's been going well last few days! Good luck! Let us know how you get on...

[BabyBsMommy]

Glad to hear things are better, too.  When you mentioned letting her go back to sleep before the df, it reminded me that whenever DS woke up before his df, we wouldn't give it to him until he was back asleep, either, unless he was up for so long that it was getting close to 11pm (we usually offered it between 10:15-10:30).  Also, on the lovie thing, DS never really played with them in his crib as spirited as he is, just ignored them until about 10 months.  Now they are inseparable!

[ElsMom]

Well, the 9:30 DF only "solved" the problem for about 3 nights.  So that was maybe a fluke.  The last 2 nights, she has woken 1-2 times before DF, I've put her back down, woken her for DF at 9:30, and she's gotten up between 1 and 2 am.    Both times she wouldn't settle until I fed her - the first night I waited 1 1/2 hrs to feed her, the 2nd I was too tired so I only waited 30 minutes to feed her.  After both feeds, she put herself back to sleep with no shh/pat.  BUT, she seems to have lost her ability to put herself down after the nighttime feed at 6:40.  That's always been the easiest one- feed her, plop her in her crib, wait 5 minutes to make sure she's out, and the night is mine.  Since this all started a couple of weeks ago, she's needed my help (darn shh/pat) to get down - last night it was 45 minutes... absolutely ridiculous.  But I'm starting to think I have a couple of problems on top of each other - I know this is too long to technically be a growth spurt, but maybe I'm not feeding her enough solids during the day.  I tried increasing the dinner meal, but I think that's probably the one to keep smaller so she has more room for a full nighttime BF.  So I'm thinking of increasing her breakfast and lunch solids meals by 1 cube of food.  And also, the evening schedule is tricky - if she wakes at 4, she eats at 4:15, then dinner at 5:15, then BF at 6:40.  She's been so hyper at bedtime lately, that would indicate OT, but the only way to get more time between her feeds is to wake her earlier from nap 2. 

She's been hyper hyper hyper at bedtime, and just feeds both sides, jumps off, and practices all her sounds.  I put her in the bed that way, and it can be 15 minutes before she even realizes she's tired and I start the shh/pat (I wait for her to fuss for me, and I don't shh/pat when she's trying to sit up - if she's trying to sit or stand, I go to the foot of her crib and hide for a few minutes and try again).  But now I think she might be old enough to realize that I'm hiding right there in the room - that I'm not GONE, but I'm just out of sight.  And I did try to leave the room in between last night, but she got hysterical.  I didn't have the confidence in WI/PD/WO yet to try it.  So... I think I need some instructions on how to do WI/PD/WO, about how long to expect it to take the first few times, and also I need to somehow feel confident that she's not waking from hunger.  I know every baby is different, so it's hard to tell me, but if there's some reason she's truly hungry at 1:30 am, I want to solve that problem before I start solving the shh/pat.  I guess I'm saying I want to know that the only reason she wants me in there is to help her sleep, not because she wants to eat. 

Thanks for all of your support! 

[Vicku]

Hi Lisa!
I can see where you're coming from, and trying to increase solids during the day seems like a good idea to me. Re giving another cube at lunch, I would probably let her eat as much as she wants actually, weather it's another cube or two or whatever. I've never heard that you can 'over feed' them. Also, at your LO's age I dropped one bf to make room for more solids at dinner without them not taking a good bf before bed, so that might be a good idea to space things out a bit.
Our schedule then looked like this:
6/6:30- wake
7:00- bf
8:15- solids breakfast
8:45/9- nap
12:00- solids lunch
12:30/1- nap
3:00 bf
5:00/5:30- solids dinner
7:00- bf
7:30- bed
(+DF)

Might not work for you, but thought it'd give you an example at how things can be. Removing 11 bf helped ensure she had a really good lunch, which should be their main solids meal of the day, and the 3pm bf is then sort of a snack to tide her over to dinner. Now, I'm not saying it would work for your DD, as I can't possibly know if it would, but my DD DID start to sleep much better when put on this routine. Had been to one very similar to yours before...

[Vicku]

Oh, and also re WI/PD/WO I'm not an expert, so maybe you would get better help by posting a separate topic about that? Just want you to get best possible help.

[ElsMom]

Thanks so much.  Is there any way to know how much solid food is "normal" at this age?  Like if feeding jars, I believe those are 4 oz, so does a 9 month old typically eat more than 1 jar in a sitting?  Maybe I should post that q on the solids board, huh?    Today for lunch she had 3 cubes of veggies and 1 of fruit, plus some bread and cheerios.  I don't know if she was completely full or not (couldn't get her to tell me!!) but she definitely seemed bored of sitting there eating.  When she stops feeding herself her bread chunks, I think that's a fairly good sign that she's done - don't know if she would eat more if I could get it in her faster, but the 4 cubes took about 30 minutes, and I think that was her highchair threshold. 

Thanks for your routine, too - that's really helpful.  I guess I thought if I dropped a BF, it should be the DF, but maybe dropping the 11:00 will help me have more of a supply at the other meals, and she'll get more later in the day.

I think I'm going to surf the props area - I think I remember seeing something there before about shh/pat as a prop.

[Vicku]

I've heard that the jars are a fairly good idea of how much they would eat... My HV told me that a lot of LOs fed on jars (I mostly made my own and didn't know how much to offer) would have one jar of veggies and then a fruit one for dessert! But I think if she's losing interest she's probably had enough.
Hope you find info about the shh/pat thing. Think it becomes a prop as they get older...