Feeding in the night then not interested in breakfast

[anna*]

Hi there.

15 week old Stan is still waking once a night to feed - however this is usually followed by hours of wakings due to cramps/gas/wind which I can't seem to relieve. He's also increasingly disinterested in breakfast. We were giving him Infacol for a little while, some time ago, but stopped it as it seemed to be making refluxy symptoms worse, but he's having no problems during the day time any more and I'm so tired (been up since 2.30 this morning) and desperate that I'm thinking maybe we should start the Infacol again, even though I'm not mad keen on medicating.

I know it's completely normal for someone this age to be feeding in the night, and honestly, I'm completely happy with doing a night feed, it's the aftermath that I'm finding so difficult. And with him being so disinterested in breakfast (our first EASY is actually an ASY with him complaining loudly when I offer him the breast) I'm wishing he would skip the night feed and have breakfast instead.

I'm sure there are no answers really, just posting for a bit of support because I'm so tired I'm dizzy.

anna
x

[Vicku]

Hugs to you Anna!

What time does he have the night feed? Hard to give advice without knowing. Also does he take both breasts at night feed?
I'm not familiar with the realtion between Infacol and reflux, but know that it helped us loads. However it took 3 weeks of using it with every feed til it really improved things as it builds up in their system over time. It's not supposed to be harmful at all as it's not absorbed into the body but just stays in the bowels. Anyway, don't know if that's any help, but if you do decide to try it again and it's ok with the refluxy sympthoms, then try it for a longer period. I know it was the Infacol that helped us as I then tried stopping it several times but then sympthoms came back and went away again when I started it again. Kept giving it til about 7 months I think...
I'm sorry you've had such a tough time! Hope things get easier soon.
Btw, little Stan is a real cutie!

[anna*]

*hugs* back thank you. He has a dreamfeed around 10-10.30 of EBM (or, more recently, goat milk based formula on the advice of our homeopath but I don't know if I should change this to cow based one (lots of asthma and allergies in our family) or just try harder to express more during the day  ) and then he wakes to feed any time between 2 and 4.30. Most often I would say 2.30-3.

We've been giving him gripe water with every evening/night feed, but it doesn't seem to be helping much.

anna
x

[Vicku]

Are you doing EBM DF so you don't have to do it? We did that too...
I wonder if the formula is making his gas worse? Have you noticed a change since starting it? We also have lots of allergies in the family and Lois wouldn't tolerate formula as it made her tummy so upset and gave her a rash. What time of day are you expressing? Are you always doing it at the same time? I know it's really hard work... did it for 9 months...
I'm not an expert on bf, just going by my own experience from doing it for 9.5 months myself... but maybe you could try not feeding at night? If there's no interest in breakfast, maybe he doesn't need both?
It's horrible with the wind and cramps though, hope that settles down soon! I wish I could be more of a help 

[anna*]

Yeh, DH does the dreamfeed (so I can try and get to bed by 9.30 - which I need to do cuz of all the nightwakings!  ).

I think we'll try giving EBM again and see if it makes any difference tonight. I usually express after the middle of the night feed (he takes one side and I express from the other) and right before I go to bed. I've been lazy recently though and just going to bed without expressing. It seems some days, I can express a whole feed in 10 minutes, other times it's really hard going and takes a long time.

Do you know if babies ever just drop the nightfeed by themselves? The thought of doing shh-pat with a screaming Stan in the middle of the night just fills me with dread...

anna
x

PS: I read you've been having a bit of a rough time too. *hugs* and I hope it's better soon.

[Mum of 3 + 2 stepkids]

Hi, and hugs. Just a thought but have you thought about dropping the df. My lo is the same age and i don't do df, i do however give him 6oz ebm at 6.30-7 (which dh gives) and he sleeps till 4ish. I then express before i go to bed oh and at the 7pm feed Which is my bottle for the next day.

Some babies get desturbed when woken for the df and if your lo is waking at 2 anyway its got to be worth a shot, Who knows.

Kate x

[anna*]

Thanks Kate it's worth a try. tbh he's usually stirring when we get him for his DF, so I expect he'll just wake up at 11 instead of DF at 10.30.

anna
x

[Vicku]

Hi again Anna!
Back from working a few hrs...
Have you tried expressing in the am? The milk production is at its top then, and I always found I got loads more in the am. Used to feed on one breast then express the other. Milkproduction is lowest in the evening. And gee it must be hard expressing in the middle of the night! Understand you find it hard... What sort of pump are you using? Lois didn't tolerate formula til she was 8 months, so even though I understand the hazzle of expressing it might help you in the long run if it helps Stan with the wind which in turn could help him sleep better.

Don't know about other babies, but Lois didn't drop the nightfeeds on her own. In fact they got worse as I think she got used to being fed back to sleep several times so when she was 5 months my DH took over for a few nights ( one of his brighter moments) I slept with ear plugs, and he just held her and tried to calm her with the dummy, then settled her in cot when calmed down. The whole process took about 5 days, then she's never had a feed at night since. Don't want to be discouraging but that's how we did it.

I know people do different things re DF. We kept DF at 11 til she was sleeping through the rest of the night pretty much without problems and then a while longer still (til about 9 months) as I prefered her to sleep the longest stretch while I was sleeping IYKWIM, and she'd wake up at 12 or 1 if I didn't DF anyway, so that worked for us.

What was the problem with the Infacol and reflux sympthoms then?

Thanks for your hugs!

[anna*]

I've never quite figured out daytime expressing - the first opportunity seems to be at the morning nap, and then I don't know if I express from the breast he's just fed from - or the one he's going to feed from in an hour or so?

anna
x

[Vicku]

Well what I did was I fed on one breast, 'breakfast', then when she didn't want more I tried expressing the rest, if there was any left, from that breast, then expressed as much as I could from the second side straight away while she laid next to me on the bed. This worked really well and she was quite content to lie there for a while, but don't know about Stanley? It worked well as I did same thing every morning so supply increased quite quickly and as supply is highest in am anyway I had enough for both ( and I was not one of those women with 'endless' supply, struggled a bit sometimes, but this seemed to work the best) Do you think it would work for you to give that a go?

[*Nicola*]

Thanks Kate it's worth a try. tbh he's usually stirring when we get him for his DF, so I expect he'll just wake up at 11 instead of DF at 10.30.

anna
x

We introduced 10pm DF to get rid of midnight waking left over after 3 month growth spurt.  Within a week she began to wake at 230am with the DF.  One night I didn't give it and woke at midnight but then slept til morning.  So we stopped.  Most nights she wakes at 230am-ish sometimes we still get a midnight one thrown in there  but it is much better than doing DF + 1 other feed.

[anna*]

Thanks Nicola

Thing is, DH does the DF, not me. I really like the feeling that I'm not doing 100% of the work - but hey ho.

I've got some Infacol in - let's see what happens for a few nights without a dreamfeed. Should be interesting*. I'm expecting to be very tired, but hoping to be surprised.

anna
x

* Isn't that some kind of a curse - 'may you live in interesting times'?   

[Vicku]

It is worth a try Anna, so hope it works! x x x x x

[Mum of 3 + 2 stepkids]

fingers crossed

[anna*]

Well it's only been two nights, I suppose I should give it at least another night, but at this point I'm so tired I can't see straight. (Please don't suggest asking DH to help as he is little more than useless and I'drather not talk about it).

So last two nights we have not done the dreamfeed. The logic behind the htinking was that Stan might still wake twice more in the night, but maybe 1 less feed, and 0 bottle feeds, might mean less problems with gas later in the night.

Well both nights he has woken at midnight, then again between 3-3.30. Then, as before, he wakes at 5.30am. I don't know for sure but it sounds like gas that is waking him, he is groaning and wriggling. He's been having Infacol before every feed since Friday afternoon (it's Sunday morning now) and I know it takes a while to build up but there's no noticeable difference. From 5.30-7 I 'force' Stan to stay asleep by shh-patting him on my shoulder, but he's still periodically (say, every 5 mins) wriggling and if I wasn't there he would be wide awake within minutes. I want him to get used to the feeling of sleeping at 7, because I can't be starting our day at 5.30. Especially not when I've already been up twice in the night.

And, he's still pretty much disinterested in feeding at 7. He had a half-hearted suck for a few mins this morning, but that's all. I don't know how I can get him to take more calories in the daytime (so as to reduce the need at night) because he drains both breasts at every other feed.

please help.