Feeding in the night then not interested in breakfast

[pod]

Hi Anna - poor you, really sorry to hear you're having so many issues and you feel so knackered.  Sorry to wade in here if its not appropriate, but you mentioned about getting Stanley to take more calories during the day.  You may well be aware of this but in Tracy's second book she talks through how to increase daytime supply to help with night wakings due to hunger.  She suggests expressing either straight after, or an hour after, each feed for 3 days and with the expressed milk (which could only be an ounce or 2) give that to your ds after he's fed from your breast so he gets used to taking the extra calories.  After the 3 days your supply should be up.  I did this and I didn't think it had worked but in fact last night only had 1 wake up at 4am so feeling a lot more positive about it.  I wonder if the fact that you say he drains both breasts means he could take more?  May be worth a try?

Also, do you elevate the mattress to help with the reflux and wind?  Stick with the infacol, we found it excellent but it does take a while to kick in.

I think you're doing the right thing in trying to keep him asleep till 7 - you don't want to start getting into the habit of getting up at 5.30, for both your sakes! 

I hope things get a bit better for you - good luck x

[Vicku]

Hi Anna!

Hmmm, doesn't seem like cutting the DF will get you more sleep really, does it? Might be worth trying another night, but it was same for us, she'd just wake around midnight and then still wakr twice in the night...

Firstly, keep giving Infacol. You won't notice a difference yet, it'll take a week at least (did for us anyway) and three weeks to get full benefit. I nearly gave up but a friend who'd used it and whom I trusted told me excactly this, and it turned out to be the same with Lois. I know 2-3 weeks seem ages away right now, but keep with it and you might be pleased you did if it works the same for Stan.

Do you mean that he empties both breasts on each feed? I think the idea Pod mentioned from Tracy's book seems worth a try. I know it means more pumping, which is a pain, but if it can get him more full in the day and feeding less at night it's definitely worth a go don't you think?

Without involving DH (which btw needs a hard kick up the butt  hope you don't mind me saying, but I know how hard it is when you're lacking that support) if you decide to continue DF but without bottle, you could go to bed after getting Stan to bed, put on alarm for DF (I used to do this) get up and feed, then back to bed and hope for as much sleep as poss before next waking.

Agree 5:30 is NOT a nice time to start the day so trying to get him used to sleeping longer is good! I feel for you hun going through all this! I've been there and I know how hard it is especially when you get so tired and everything feels like it's going wrong and you're trying thing after thing... Stay strong, believe in yourself and your ability as a mother, and DO try and get as much sleep as you can, things feels easier the more rested you are. Be selfish on the occasions where you can be and enjoy your beautiful baby too, taking time out from thinking about sleep, feeding and all, and just cuddle and play. Stay strong babe, and remember we're here!

[anna*]

Thanks for the responses. i guess I should try the additional pumping. Argh. More work.  I feel terribly defeatist, like 'what's the point it wont help'. You know, every time you try something new there's this glimmer of hope and then it's so disappointing when you get ANOTHER night of 4 hours' sleep.

We'll keep up with the Infacol, it's producing some spectacular burps in the daytime even if I struggle to get any out when he's sleepy at night.

I don't know V, I think if we're going to do a DF it has to be by bottle, and we take the consequences re the gas. If he's asleep, I just can't get him to feed enough from the breast to make it worth while - he gets all cozy, takes 6 sucks and sleeps. So the whole thing ends up taking forever. It's easier to get him to feed from a bottle (plus we can SEE that the milk's going down).

Gah. I don't know what to do tonight!

anna
x

[Vicku]

I don't know V, I think if we're going to do a DF it has to be by bottle, and we take the consequences re the gas. If he's asleep, I just can't get him to feed enough from the breast to make it worth while - he gets all cozy, takes 6 sucks and sleeps. So the whole thing ends up taking forever. It's easier to get him to feed from a bottle (plus we can SEE that the milk's going down).

Ah, I see. Never had that problem but can see how that'd make it difficult... There are some hypoallergenic formulas you can get on prescription if you're concerned the milk protein is causing cramps and wind. They taste quite foul but usually the babies are ok with them when they're that young. Could that be an option to try?
I know how you feel re trying lots of things and having high hopes... it's not easy! But other option I guess would be to just go with the flow and do nothing to try and change things, and I know that at least I couldn't bear that.
Did you try the pumping first thing in am? Maybe if S is not very interested anyway at that time you could try and pump as much as poss for DF and to keep up your supply as S is not really making an effort to do that for that time of the day?
I DO know what it is like with the pumping, I did it every day almost for 9.5 months    It is extra work, but the thing I learned was that if I did it regularly same time each day it was much easier. Got more and was quicker and became part of the routine.
At the end of the day babes, it's your decision what to do, DF or not. You could always do a 3rd night to have enough to base your next decision on, but it's up to you.
I really hope you get a better nights sleep Anna! I'll send lots of sleepy vibes to your little cutie pie!
Let us know how you get on with the pumping   

[anna*]

Might try with an EBM bottle tonight and see how it goes. DH and I have been arguing today (it's not that he doesn't help, it's just he's got no confidence, and Stan ends up howling (Daddy does things different and when you're used to Mummy's way of doing naps, it's difficult), so i can't sleep, so I end up stepping in to 'fix' things, which undermines DH and p*s me off, and we all end up miserable. Yes I could go to my mum's and sleep but I don't want to leave DH and Stan getting upset and stressed out with each other).

I didn't try pumping in the morning yet. Stan's so gassy I'm always holding him for a while after feeding so I'm not quite sure how to work out the logistics of it but I'll have a better go tomorrow (pumping after every feed).

I really hope you get a better nights sleep Anna! I'll send lots of sleepy vibes to your little cutie pie!

Thanks hun. It's a good job he's so darn cute else I'd leave him at the busstop   

anna
x

[Vicku]

Keep going with Infacol, day and nite! Has helped everyone I know that's kept at it for a few weeks and continued.

Yes, there must be a thought behind why babies are so cute... 

I still always have to tell DH how to do things and he now does what I say as he realises it works best if we do the same thing more or less. Hope you two are ok! Arguments are really common during first year as parents. It's a big change for you both...

Wish I could come and BW Stan for a few hrs while you had some rest... I know it's hard to let go and let someone else take over. I still feel like that. Sometimes you have to though, even just for a few hours.

Good luck with the pumping tomorow, and remember if you're pumping after every feed you WILL only get 1 or 2 oz probably to start with. If you feel you can manage it try first thing in am too and see how much you get then. I ended up having 3 pumps after a while as I was expressing so often and washing and sterilising all the time did my head in. It was worth the extra £20 or so per pump, I tell ya! Oh, we made it DH's job to wash, strilise and get a pump ready at night to put on my bedside table ready for pumping first thing. You could always hint saying this is what other DHs do 

Night night!

[Mum of 3 + 2 stepkids]

hi, hope you don't mind me butting in but don't worry if you only get a dribble when you pump. After a couple of days it will get bigger. Just the pumping alone will send the right signals

Kate

[anna*]

Well SOMETHING happened!!? Gave a DF of EBM (not the formula he's been having recently), and he slept til 3.30, took a really full feed, then slept soundly til 7 and only woke up when I started saying to DH 'I don't believe it!? He only woke up once! Do you know how long it's been since the alarm clock has woken me in the morning??!' I think he heard me through the wall   

I guess the Infacol helped, the EBM helped, and it was probably something of a fluke too (I'm not expecting a repeat performance tonight). Of course I spent quite a bit of the night waking up wondering when Stan would wake up. But oh my goodness it feels good to have got some sleep. 10-3.30, 4.30-7

anna
x

[Mum of 3 + 2 stepkids]

 

[Vicku]

Oh, I'm so glad to hear that! You're being very realistic not to epect it to be like it every night from now on, but it might have helped that he was given EBM instead. Hopefully Infacol is starting to help too. I really hope things will start to stabilise for you soon so you, and Stan, can get some better sleep.
Are you still trying the pumping in the am and after feeds? PP is right that it can be just a drop at first, but the pumping action stimulates the production and after about 3 days it should have increased.
Hope you're having a good day!

[anna*]

Stanley's spending the day with his Gran, so I'm trying to express every 2 hrs - of course, that's as well as doing some laundry and other sundry housework, and answering some pressing work-related emails.

Hopefully I'll express the equivalent of the feeds I've sent with him, plus a bit more for DF tonight. Tomorrow I'll try pumping in the morning and after each feed and topping him up at the following feed. I've got one full feed of lovely hind-milky morning milk which I hope will knock him right out when he has it for DF tonight

anna
x

[Vicku]

Hope it goes well! Enjoy your child-free time. Yeah, that morning milk is usually good, especially after a better nights sleep. Well done babes! Hope tonight goes well too!

[Mum of 3 + 2 stepkids]

lol to the lovely hind-milky morning milk

[anna*]

 

[anna*]

Well, day three of pumping after feeds and I'm still only getting .5-1oz maximum total after a feed. I guess Stan's just taking anything extra that's being produced? Still waking twice in the night though