6 mth short nap but wakes and talks

[preciousb]

Hi there

My LO has been on EASY from week 2 and has generally been a good sleeper.  She has learnt to self settle by sucking hands to sleep with a bit of grizzling.  If OT there is longer grizzling until she will suck her hands.  Occasionally needs help with cuddle and then put back down.  During naps when she woke after 1 cycle she would generally put hands in her mouth and suck into next cycle.

Until 2 weeks ago her routine was:

E: 7am
A: 7-9.9.15
S: 9/9.15

E: 11 am
A: 11-1pm/1.15
S  1/1.15 - 3

E: 3
A: 3-5.15
S: Catnap - 5.15 - 6pm

A:  6-7.15: Bath, massage
E:  7-7.15:  Sleep for night

E: 10.30: Dreamfeed

Her am and pm naps started getting shorter down to 50mins and sometime she wouldn't take catnap.  Mum thought she was trying to drop the last pm nap and for 4 days she skipped the early evening nap put her down an hour earlier and her am/pm naps slowly lengthened back to 2 hours.

New routine:

E:7am
A:7-9.30
S: 9.30 to 10.45/11.30

E: 11-11.30
A: 11/11.30 to 1.45/2pm
S: 1.45/2pm to 3.15-3.40

E: 3.15 to 3.40
A: 3.15-3.40 to 6-6.15
S:  6-6.15 to morning.

E: Dreamfeed at 10.30


We then came home from holiday and things went bad for a few nights.  Twice she woke during the dream feed and it took 1.5 hours to get her back to sleep.  1st night it was rocking. 2nd night did PU/PD.  Next night she was overtired from skipping her late pm nap and 3 3/4 hours uptime trying to stick to schedule.  Took 1.5 hours of PU/PD to get her to sleep.

Her am nap shortened yesterday to 45 mins then she woke and played in her cot happily for 30 mins before crying.  Went in to do PU/PD for 45 mins until next feed time.  Did not work getting her to sleep.  Feed her at normal time.  Kept to routine but put her down 20mins early for pm nap. PM nap was 1 hour 35 in pm - waking at 2.15pm.  Happy to wait for feed at usual 3pm time. Instead of pushing too hard to get to 2 nap routine we let her have a catnap at 5.10 (old routine) and put down fine at 6.40pm.

Today she had 30 mins am nap woke and played in cot happily for 45 mins before going back to sleep.  Did not do PU/PD as she did not cry.  Will wake her at 11.30 for feed.

I am confused!  Am I doing things right?  Should I be using PU/PD when her waking problems are so sporadic?
Do I stick to old routine albeit with very short naps or try and push for 2 nap routine?  What is my Lo trying to tell me?

Any help appreciated!

[deckchariot]

She is 6 mos, right?  Have you started solids?  If not, when do you plan to do so?  If so, that may be part of the issue, some bubs have a bit a time getting adjusted to new foods in their diet.  Is she teething or doing anything new developmentally?

It looks like you're adjusting her routine daily based on what she needs, and that's exactly what you should be doing.  She's a bit young to be dropping the catnap, but is probably in the process of doing that - so that means some days she may need it and some days she may not.  If she hasn't napped well earlier and you try a catnap and she doens't take one, you can put her to bed a bit earlier. 

when she wakes early, have you tried using pat/shh to get her back to sleep?  I would only use pu/pd if she's crying and you cannot settle her with pat/shh.  Also, after returning from holiday, it may just take her a bit to settle back in to a more normal routine.

I think you're actually doing a really good job of listening to your lo!

michelle

[preciousb]

Hi there

Thanks for your reply.  Yes we started solids a couple of weeks ago - just tastes really but now she has breakfast and lunch.  Just a few mouthfuls really.  Developmentally she has started to roll and can sit up unsupported for a few seconds.

Haven't needed to use shh pat since she was 8 weeks as she learn to self settle.  Also thought that at 6 months shh/pat disturbs rather than soothes?  In any event I only go in if she is crying and not trying to self sooth any more.

Yesterdays naps were even stranger:  At her AM she slept for 30 mins woke and played happily for 45 mins in her cot and went back to sleep for another 40 mins.  At her PM she slept for 35 mins woke, played for 20 mins and went back to sleep for another 40 mins.  At her catnap she only dozed for about 20 mins.  Not sure if she is UT or OT when I put her down.  Didn't go in as she wasn't crying.

At night at about 9 pm she wakes from a sleep cycle, cries for 2-3 mins and puts herself back to sleep.  This happen 3 times/cycles in a row last night.

Any clues?

Thanks

preciousb

[deckchariot]

I'm guessing it's developmental - especially since she's waking happy and then is able to put herself back to sleep without needing you.  If she was OT, she sure wouldn't wake happy!  You could try extending her A time just by 10  min and see if that stops the wakings.  The NWs could be developmental as well - or it could be that she's tired from interrrupted naps during the day.  If it's just a developmental thing, you kind of just have to ride it out.  But you can try a bit extra A time and see if that helps - if it makes it worse, by all means shorten the A time back to where you are now.

HTH
michelle

[preciousb]

Hi there

Extending her activity time to 2 hours 45 mins has helped with her naps - thanks alot! 

Had a good 2 hours and 1.5 hours naps yesterday and 2 hours and 1 hour 25 naps today.  Makes her feed times a bit funny but she seems to cope with 4.5 hours between 1st and 2nd feeds and 3.5 hours between 2nd and third.  Has also skipped catnaps when had two good naps.

Dreamfeed stil not great as she wakes and then needs 15 mins or so sporadic crying to settle herself back to sleep.  Should I try and phase it out?

Thanks

preciousb

[deckchariot]

YAY for nap improvement!!!  Well done!!!!!  In terms of phasing out the df - we started phasing it out at 7 mos - after solids were well established on 3 meals a day - but that being said, probably for the last 6 weeks or so of the df, she did wake for it...so it's up to you how you want to proceed.  So glad naps are going better though!!!!!

[preciousb]

Hi there

Naps have improved by extending her awake time to 2.45 to 3 hours.  Does 2 hour nap in am and 1.5 hour nap in pm. If this happens she does not need catnap.

My questions is how do I fit this around a 4 hour EASY?  If I drop back her awake time to 2.5 hours she just wakes after 45m ready to go again!  At the moment she waits for 4.5 hours between feed 1 and 2 so her 1st nap is 2 hours.  Then it a shorter time between feeds 2 and 3. 

What is more important sleep or consistent feed times?

thanks again!

[deckchariot]

Well done on the naps!!!  In terms of "times", remember, EASY is a routine, not a schedule, don't worry about being exactly 4 hrs between feeds - if it's more or less because of  naps, that's fine, the idea is to keep the sequence of eating, activity, sleeping, not so much the exact timelines.  Go with her times - if that means 4.5  hrs between feeds 1 and 2 and a shorter time between 2 and 3, that's fine - it's a routine.  It looks like you're doing a fabulous job!!!

[preciousb]

Thought I'd cracked it with extra activity time but we are back to 2 short 45 min naps again!! Aarrgh?!! 

When she wakes she just happily plays in her cot for up to 45mins until I come get her for her next feed.  Not sure how to extend these naps.

Now she is just over 7 months old her schedule is like this:

6.30am Wakes and plays until E
7am milk
8.30am solids
9.30am: 1st nap mostly 45 mins but sometimes 30mins or 50 mins.  Plays happily in cot until 11am but no longer puts herself back to sleep.
11am: Milk
12.30am solids
1.30: 2nd nap mostly 45 mins but sometimes 30mins or 50 mins.  Plays happily in cot until 3pm but no longer puts herself back to sleep.
3pm: Milk
4.30pm: Solids
6-6.30pm: Bedtime, sleeping until 6-6.30am

She is sleeping 12 hours a night so should I just accept these 45min naps?  I know she can self soothe back to sleep during naps with her hands and she did it from 3 to 6 months!  Generally happy during A time but grizzly towards the end and at end of day.

No props for sleep used, but thinking of whether to try shh/pat again even though we haven't had to use it since the early days.

Do I really have a problem or should I just accept 2 short naps?

Thanks

[Krissy18]

this post is giving me some hope..I feel like everything is outta control. naps are ALL over the place..at all diff times, not settling quickly, short naps, too longo naps sometimes, no catnap, tired at 530, etc etc..im sure you have read my posts. i hope this settles down around 6 months ..a few more weeks to go! please say its developmental. right now EASY is all over the place and i think LO Is just as confused as i am right now!

[deckchariot]

peciousb - keep in mind that she's older now....she may need a bit more A time once again.  Our bubs are always changing.  By 7 mos, most los are doing almost 3 hrs of A time, which it look like she's getting in the morning but not the other times.  I know with my dd around this age, she flipped to needing more A time in the morning and less before bed (it had always been the opposite), and also she needed more active A time to really tire her out.  So you may want to try adding just 10 min in the morning, and trying to do a bit more to really keep her active - taking her out etc.

Krissy - it really does get better! I'll go check out your other threads and see if I can help out there!

hth
michelle

[preciousb]

Her am Activity time is 3 hours, her middle activity time is 3 hours 15 and her pm activity time is 3 hours 15 to 3 hours 30.  Could she handle more than this at her age?  Have started more active things - a music class and swim class but this doesn't help her nap better/longer.

[deckchariot]

her A time seems right, but maybe she is ready for more....if that doesn't help, and she's happy, maybe she just going through a phase of being ok with short naps...after music class or swim class - she still does the 45ish min nap and wakes happy?  huh......maybe it really is just a phase for her.  And she doesn't have a meltdown at bedtime?  You could keep the 45 min naps and try an earlier bedtime if she's melting down towards the end of the day.

[preciousb]

Seems more activity time to tire her out is the answer again - plus the activity classes really help.  For the past three days she has taken some 1.5 hour naps - 2 of them after a long middle (4 hour) A time and a physical class (swimming and music). 

This morning I extended her AM A time too and she slept for 1 hour 20 mins.  Kept her up 4 hours in the middle A time and she is sleeping now. 

Its mucking up her feeds a bit  - I think the middle period might have to be EAES to make sure she gets enough food and doesn't wake from her second nap due to hunger.  Not sure how to juggle that but will try to figure out a schedule this weekend!

Thanks for your help again!

[deckchariot]

sounds like you're doing great!  I remember with Abby once she started solids and was up longer, her feed times were  a bit all over the place - actually to some extent we still have a bit of that.  but it looks like you're tweaking stuff to find what works for her, so that's GREAT!!