Which easy should I be doing>

[Meg's Mom]

I understand....2 more questions pppplllease:
1) 'stay there in her room for about 45 mins to help ease her into the next phase of sleep.'  SO do you mean stay from when she falls asleep to 45m or when she wakes, then stay 45m to ease her?
2) I will flow her cues and aim for 1.75 A time, but when she pulls a short nap (30-40) and i can't extend, would you continue the rest of the day w/ stretching those A times.  Or pull back and try again the next day?

again, thanks for your advice!!

[* Paula *]

I would stay in your lo's room from the time she falls asleep.  That way you can see when she starts sitrring, and can help ease her through that jolt. 

When you have a bad nap, you can always get her up and do about 10 mins low key A time, and then try to get her down for a nap again.  If this fails, then I would watch her cues really closely, and try again the next day.

[Meg's Mom]

Paula, i could kiss you!! 

That was the missing piece of the puzzle! 

drum roll pls...finally after 2.5 wks of working on this she took a short nap BUT resettled herself!  It was our 3rd nap of the day (the first 2 were short and only the first nap of the day was extended after a lot of pat).  So our final nap of the day was an A time of 2hr (she just didn't show me any tired signs earlier.  She slept for 25m + 10m + 15m + 1hr!  All those plus she did by herself. 

Then i was able to get her to bed at 7pm (a 12hr day) and she went w.o a peep!

[*Natasha*]

I would stay in your lo's room from the time she falls asleep.  That way you can see when she starts sitrring, and can help ease her through that jolt. 

When you have a bad nap, you can always get her up and do about 10 mins low key A time, and then try to get her down for a nap again.  If this fails, then I would watch her cues really closely, and try again the next day.

Ditto to that.

Michelle doing a big *Happy Dance* for you well done hope she keeps it up 

[Meg's Mom]

thanks for your help too natasha  kiss for you too 

i am doing the happy dance, happy dance.  

[*Natasha*]

I am not stalking you i promise 

[* Paula *]

Michelle that is fantastic news

How have things been going since?

[Meg's Mom]

natasha - i know you just luv me :-)

Thanks Paula -

Update on us - maddie has basically put herself on EASY over the weekend.  She is doing A times of 2hr and 2hr naps (w/ resettling).

I posted last thurs that she rettled her self at nap time for the first time....well that didn't last and reverted back to needing lots of resettling.  So i focused on extending her A times and over the weekend she put self on 4hr EASY. 

On Sunday she took a 2hr15m nap w/o any wakings!  And again just now, she is taking her first midday nap w/o waking!  So do pray we are on our way!! 

[*Natasha*]

Michelle fantastic news things often get sorted when they go to 4hr EASY 

[* Paula *]

That is fantastic news.  I am so pleased that things are going so well.

[Meg's Mom]

Ok i am back again for more advice...lets see if i can sum it up.  She is still having troubles with her naps!  As in PP she put herself on 4hr EASY about 1.5 wks ago.  Things got better for a few days w/ the longer A times.  I am noticing a trend...she will have a 2 or 3 days of good naps then back slide for 3 or 4 days.  I can almost always resettle her for the am nap (probably cuz dd#1 is at preschool and can spend more time in there).  But the afternoon nap is hit or miss.  I think it is one of these issues or all:

1) paci - she falls asleep independently, swaddle, paci, song, put her in crib and if a time is right she goes right to sleep.  But at the 30m mark when she wakes, i reinsert the paci.  She pushes it out after 3m.  But then a jolt comes and she is looking for it.  I have also tried holding the paci and but it makes no difference.
2) A times - she doesn't yawn much any more so i try to read her vocal signs and the clock.  Our current A times are 2-2.15hr.  But maybe she can handle more? 
3) jolts - the transitions are a big part of the issue.  I have tried staying there to 'catch them' but it doesn't make a difference.  I apply pressure at that first resettle, as above it is hit or miss.
4) mantra / letting her settle herself - i have a hard time figuring out her mantra so I don't let her cry by herself (mantra or other wise).  Maybe i am not giving her enough time to figure this out by herself. 

I starting to really feel like we are never going to get past this!  I don't know which way to go with this.  Please HELP!

[babymunkey]

Hi Michelle - sorry you're still struggling - how are your nights going?

As always, not much detailed advice from me, but a few thoughts....

Re the trend - same here - we had had a good few days peaking in yesterday when he did his am nap, down with no white noise, and slept through the whole 2 hours without a murmur - first time in weeks. But then luchtime went wrong (I think after a good night's sleep and the good am nap, he could have done more A time - he woke up really happy and stayed that way for the rest of the day with just a catnap) - then this mornings was short too.....we couldn't resettle him for either. He's down now for his lunchtime nap, but I'm not taking any chances and have left the white noise on for the duration

1. Dummies - can I make a radical suggestion? What happens if you don't give it to her in the first place? We have weaned off it - well to be fair he did it himself really - we were just really conscious of not reaching for it as a solution, as 50% of the time he didn't seem to want it anyway, but I'd find myself reaching for it - he'd would take it, then spit it out....and when I caught myself stuffing it back in I thought this is ridiculous, I'm probably creating a dependency....so we put them all away one day to stop the temptation and that was that. If she's spitting it out after only 3 minutes, do you think she could do without it, then she kind of wouldn't be looking for it IYKWIM?
2. Same for us on tired signs - I go on time and "grisslyness" - the grissly cry comes way before yawns and eye rubbing - I think its too late by then for us
3. I have found recently that the more we physically touch him the worse we make it - all I do now for a resettle is turn on the white noise - if that doesn't work I get him up. If we try shhhing or patting or anything, it either makes him wake up more and start smiling, then its all over cos I can't take it seriously, or makes him scream Maybe you could just try the white noise? We have our iPod attached to a pretty serious set of speakers, and we blast it to interrupt the crying/fussing, then turn it down and he kind of croons along with it til he goes back to sleep. Then I leave it on and gradually turn it down over the next 20 mins (or like today, if I think we're on rocky ground I leave it on quietly) Without getting too technical, we have a remote control for my iPod, so I set it up so that I don't even have to go back into the room to turn it back on - my idea being that I'm gradually removing my involvement.
4. Ditto re the mantra cry - I have the same problem - the only times I've managed to stay outside and see if he'll settle, its escalated to a total mess, and we have to get him up and calm him down. Paranoid about CIO, but also suspect that he could do it if I could leave him long enough.....don't know what to suggest - wouldn't it be cool if we could all babysit each other's los through a mantra-cry session - much easier to judge it with someone else's baby I think

Sorry if I've rambled, maybe stick your routine up for a nosy for any obvious tweaks, but I'm sure you've got it mostly sorted.....

H

[Meg's Mom]

Hi H!

NW is fine, actually she slept from DF to 6.20am this morning    She hasn't done that in a few weeks.  Over the past few weeks she has gone from waking at 5, then 4, then 3 and last night straight through!

I'd find myself reaching for it - he'd would take it, then spit it out....and when I caught myself stuffing it back

1. dummies - interesting suggestion.  I find myself doing the above A LOT too.  Let me see if i can get enough courage to try that.

2. yes grisslyness is a good way to describe what she does.

3. I leave the white noise on all the time, i am not really concerned about the prop issue for that as we use some time of noise all the time due the dogs making noise and it is easy to take w/ you when you travel.  I like your set up though for the white noise!!  I was rereading my bw book last night and on pg 222 Tracy talks about your voice and presence being the best tool.  I get stuck into thinking i must DO something to fix this.  I think i will try a bit less pat and a bit of voice w/ a hand on her.  pat/shh doesn't seem to do much for her either.  Honestly she has been so easy to get to sleep that i haven't had to learn what helps she most (it is only the staying asleep for naps that is our ONLY real issue) - beside that she is angel/textbook. 

4.  mantra - i was thinking we should pair up and do some telephone listing to see if we can pick up the mantra cry for each other.  i am going to take some advice i received and hold back for a min or two thenstart taking notes on what i hear and see.

Here is my routine for yesterday (not a good nap day):
Thursday, May 29th, 2008

E 6:20 am woke up /nursed
S 6:55 am Fell asleep (slept for a bit oops)

A 7:10 am woke up
S 8:15 am put down to sleep (30m to settle, so too early)
   8:45-9.17 am Fell asleep (slept for 32 min)
   9:18-10.03 am Fell asleep (slept for 45 min)
   10:04-10.19 am Fell asleep (slept for 15 min)

E 10:30 am nursed
A
S 12:35 pm put down to sleep
   12:40-1.20 pm Fell asleep (slept for 40 min)
   1:20-1.33 pm Fell asleep (slept for 13 min)
   1:33-1.49 pm Fell asleep (slept for 16 min)

E 2:30 pm nursed
A
S 3:47-4.18 pm Fell asleep (slept for 31 min) pupd for 30 min no luck!

E 5.00 pm nursed
A

E 6:00 pm nursed for 6 minutes (3, 3) 6oz ff
S 6:30 pm Fell asleep (slept for 30 min) – took 40 m to resettle!

DF 10:00 pm slept till 6.20am  finally something good about the day!

[babymunkey]

Great on last night - isn't it lovely when you wake up and go in first thing after a sleep through Wouldn't worry about the dozing!

Only a few comments on your routine.....

Naps - if I'm reading it right, when she wakes up through her naps and you only have 1 min til she goes back to sleep, we call that a reasonably good nap. Do you have to go in then? Just a quick resettle? So, my only comment on that would be that you're being a bit hard on yourself to call it not a good nap day. Harrison quite often stirs and needs a "blast" several times throughout a nap, and some days we get through with just the 45 min blip. My view is that as long as he doesn't come out of his cot and doesn't do too much crying, that's a reasonable nap!

1st nap - so, she was essentially up at 6.20 if you ignore the dozing. So your 1st A time was actually 2 hours? It took her 30 m to settle then she only slept for 30 m - I wonder if its not too early, its actually too late maybe? Isn't 30 min nap OT? After a really rough patch of naps, I pulled the 1st A time back to 1 hour, then have slowly crept it back up to 1 hr 30. You've probably been there already!

Afternoon nap - I don't think I would have bothered trying pu/pd for that - I think that I would count that as a catnap, and what we do if we only have a short catnap or no catnap at all, is put him to bed an hour early......

HTH - just going to pop over to the birth club and post our shennigans last night!

H