Really got to break this habit - please help!!

[claires mum]

Hi all....I'm trying to find the link....will keep searching.  Luckily I stored that info away in a decent part of my brain and managed to recall it. 

We had an 11.5 hour night last night...which changes the day naps entirely.  I'll figure the correlation soon.  If she sleeps less than 11 hours...I only do 2.5 hours A time in the am, then a 45 min nap, then 3 hours A time, a 1.5 hour nap, then 4 hours A time and bed.  If she sleeps more than 11 hours... I do the reverse:  4 hours A time and a 45 min nap, 3 hours A time and a 1.5 hour nap and then.....when ever she's tired she goes to bed, might be early might be late.  WHYYYYY is this so hard?

Hope everyone is making progress!

[bethanys mummy]

Aargh, we are not doing well. So after the bad nap day last TUESDAY we have had EW's and W2S not working. At a loss as to why as really worked on getting the day sleep into her

Friday am I managed to get her back to sleep and so she had 11.5 hours sleep. Jabs seemed to go ok and not effecting her for now (thanks for the wishes) and she had 1.5 hours and 35 min cat nap and straight off at bed time. And she did not seem restless when I went in so thought we were on a roll...ie OT sorted and ready for W2S to work.. but she then only did 10 hours? I just dont get it!!!! and rather depressed

Claires mum - any idea why the 11 hours happened again??? DId you do W2S?? I want that!!!

E x

[claires mum]

Emma...I'm stumped.  It just seems to cycle at the moment.  My gut instinct tells me that there is just a set limit of sleep that they can handle in 24 hours.  If she has 11+ hour nights and 2 decent day naps...then she's stored up some extra sleep that she needs to lose in the next 24 hours.  Our days regularly shift from 5.30 am wake ups to 6.30am wake ups and the same at night 6.30 pm to bed....7.30/8.00 pm to bed.  There is a pattern but it's almost impossible to explain.  W2S works on the days when she goes to bed later...and I'm expecting an EW.  It doesn't work when she goes to bed early..but I want her to wake up later. 

What I really don't like about any of this is that I can't plan my days as they are all over the place and I'm not willing to go through NWs.  So I feel like I'm a slave to this and that's not healthy.

This week I might just relax and go with her sleep cues and see if we can wing it.  I pretty much know already that it's a fool's errand....but I've just got to get out and about this week or I'll go bananas.

I hope one of us finds a magic formula that we can all use!

[RACHPEM]

Claire mum, have you had any success with the shorter A time in the mornin? We are still struggling over here and might give that a try.
keep us posted.
Rachael x

[bethanys mummy]

I really know what you mean about planning your days - like having a 4-5 month old again sometimes isn't it? Soemtimes then I lost the plot and just had to get out!!

Sounds like you might be in a UT cycle sometimes if you think she has too much sleep. We are definatley back in an OT cycle, but its caused by the EW's again which all goes back to last Tuesday arggh

E x

[DebLillian]

So last night Lillian slept from 6:45-4:45 (with pd every 15min until 5:30) and I went to bed at 8:30 so I slept for 8 hrs for the first time since before I was pregnant!  I just don't know if I should give up on the pd in the early morning.  She always seems better rested when I do it than when I just get her up at 4:45 but I sure do wish she could just sleep until she was fully rested.  Any thoughts? 

[claires mum]

Hi Girls...

Rachael - yes I have a lot of success with the early A time in the am.  I only use it if Claire's had a short night, missed some day time sleep the day before and didn't catch it up during the night, or shows some tired cues.  It's no use if I try to put her down with an early A time if she's really tanked up on sleep.  Does that make sense?

Emma...yes totally agree.  UT to OT to UT and so on.  Having a holiday this week..so I'm just going to go with the flow and put myself and DH first for a few days.  Poor guy...he's not had a look in lately!

Deb....I bet you feel more tired after 8 hours of sleep.  I know I did when Claire STTN....  It's great to hear that you got a good night and I do hope it continues.  Do you want to post your routine ... we'll see if we can come up with some ideas to eliminate the EWs.

[RACHPEM]

Maya is getting her quota in the day for sleep, but night times are getting shorter. So I am unsure that the early am nap would work for us. We did a 9.5 hr nt last night so up at 4.45am, really am stuck with what to do.  I feel she is expecting that 1st nap so thinks it is ok to wake so early. Like you Deb I also have a grumpy toddler to deal with until 1st nap. We have tried every combination and they all work, for getting her day sleep, but dont help us with EW
Rachael x

[LisaM]

Hi everyone

Well same for us really, no better, no worse.  Mostly waking about 4.15-4.30am and then going back off on her own for another 30 mins so mostly awake for day at 4.50ish.  I just wish she could go back off for an hour - could live with that even though it would still be early for most people.  I think that I do need to accept that Grace is always going to be an early waker no matter what I try to do it makes no difference so I suppose as long as I try to get her to take her naps and get as much sleep as she can I will have done my best.  I dont know if its all down to OT as when she has had good sleeps in the day etc the best we ever get is 5.15-5.30am wake ups which was happening for a while when the 2 naps were going well.  She certainly isn't getting too much daytime sleep as only has about 1 hr each nap at best so can't cut down on that.  Most days we are still doing 2 with the odd day of 1 nap when I have to to fit in with dd1's playgroup times. On these days she only has about 1.15mins.

It does drive you mad doesn't it, obsessing about wake up times, total amounts of sleep etc., just wish I could relax about it more, the trouble is when I did that we got NW's as well as EW cos she didn't get enough sleep in the day.

Just would like to get a tiny bit of my life back!!  You can tell its Monday...in a down mood cos feel very tired today.  Also fed up cos it seems like dd1 has started to wake really early as well now - I think she kept getting woken up and now she just wakes really early on her own so that is really sad for her and I hope she can get back to being a later sleeper as she will start school this year.

Anyway, sorry for waffling on - hope you all have a good day.

[bethanys mummy]

OK so today we had some success ish. W2S "worked" but only in the "she woke up and had to be AP's back to sleep type way. But then did another 2 hours

So my latest dilema, to not rouse her fully and have W2S not work then then EW,  OT, 2 big naps etc..... or to rouse her fully and have AP going on at night.... oh joy

E x

[DebLillian]

Wow.  This sleep puzzle is just so complicated.  Clairesmum- I am impressed with your complex strategy and knowledge of her patterns.

Here was what our schedule looked like:
4:30 wake, pd until 5/5:30
8am nap (1-2hrs)
1:15pm nap (1-2hrs)
7pm sleep
nighttime sleep = 9.5-10 hrs, daytime = 3-3.5 hrs

here is what I've been trying (as per someone on here's recommendation):
4:30wake, pd until 5:30
8am 45min nap (need to wake her)
12pm 2hr nap (but what really ends up happening is 30 min, resettle and 30 minutes more)
6:30/7pm bed

Last night she went to bed at 6pm and slept 11 hrs- a first for her.  I think my new goal is this:
5:30 wake (I can dream, can't I?!?)
9am 45 min nap
1:45 LOOOOONG nap (again, dreaming)
6:30 bed

I am currently slowly pushing back the 8am nap to 9am but still keeping it 45min.  I hope this makes sense.  I can barely get my head wrapped around it all.

[claires mum]

Deb...I think your intended routine looks good, but I would think about keeping her second A time a little shorter if she is waking after 30 mins.  Perhaps 3 1/2 hours A time would prevent her being OT for the second nap.  Note..this is only a plan B if you have short naps for a few days in a row.  OK?

I'm following tired cues and today we had a 5.30 am wake up, 45 min am nap (after 3 hours of A time), followed by a 2 hour nap (unheard of...) after 3.5 hours A time.  I always aim to have her in bed 13 hours after wake up .. so bedtime at 6.30 pm.  So far I'm liking the *routine by tired cues*.  I never let her go beyond 4 hours A time ... she just can't seem to handle it.

Emma.....yes I know how that feels.  Still day by day! 

Lisa and Rachael.. have you tried the early bedtime yet??  It might work a treat to extend that EW out a bit. 

[DebLillian]

Clairesmum-  That sounds great about following tired cues.  I wish I could read Lillian better.  I agree about the shorter A time  (I actually meant to type 1:15... where is my brain these days??!?!)

Last night we had several NWs (I think due to our exciting day at the children's museum) but she woke up babbling!!  She hasn't done that is months.  Of course, the babbling was at 4:30am (then a cry at 4:45 and resettled until she babbled at 5am).  But still, I am very encouraged.

Lisa and Rachael- I am a new convert to this early bedtime thing... I highly recommend it!

[LisaM]

Just lost my posting!!!  How annoying.  Anyway, we do early bedtime lots already - she is in bed at 6pm on one nap days and 7pm on 2 nap days - makes no real difference apart from sometimes will get 11 hrs if wakes about 5ish instead of 10 hrs so helps with that but I don't put her to bed at 6pm if she woke at 3pm cos don't think she be tired enough really.

Not a good day for us as taking 1 nap cos woke later (a miracle) 5.30pm and we had playgroup for dd1 so couldn't fit in 2 naps - anyway, she has woken up after 50 mins so really bad day so early to bed for sure.

She has started taking up to 30 mins to go off to sleep at night, she is not upset just chatting so its ok but it means for a really early bedtime I need to get her in bed by 5.30pm so she is asleep by 6pm - this isn't really any good cos of dinner and bath etc.  I remember dd1 doing this, she used to be in her room singing etc for ages but of course she was a good sleeper so I didn't worry about hrs slept etc.  However, she has now started waking really early too - I guess Grace has woken her enough times that now she just wakes early anyway which is very depressing.  She was awake at 5.15 for the second time this week.

Deb - glad you having some success - hope it continues.

Claires mum - I wish Grace would show cues but she doesn't I never see her yawn apart from sometimes when I have just picked her up to sing to her before nap time and she sometimes rubs her eyes and yawns but at that point its a bit late for cues!!!  She is a law unto herself unfortunately, pretty sure she will never conform - little madam!

[RACHPEM]

We have tried earlier nights, but it seems to make her wake even earlier. This morning I did wi/wo on her for around 10 mins and she slept another hr, however said that yesterday she did not have much sleep in the day so probably was more tired than usual.  Today has been quite good nap wise, she took 1.5 about 11ish and fell asleep for 30 mins at 3.30pm.  Not sure what time I should have put her down, I am frightened to late incase OT but worried too early as I end up lying in bed awake from around 3am waiting for her to wake. Yesterday like I said I pushed her fairly hard to what she is used to and it fell into place not too badly.  I fret so much over naps and schedules but sometimes when I let myself go with the flow she surprises me, and she woke no earlier I think it does us both good sometimes to chill  over naps.  Also we are going away on holiday in a couple of wks so I need to chill a little or we wont leave the room.
Hope you had good nap/night.
Rachael x