30min naps, 17wk old LO...i will beat them starting today!

[pdx_mommy]

DD will have one great nap each day.  Lately its been the first nap at 1.5 -2 hrs!  Then the day falls apart with 45 minute naps.  My DH stays home with her so he's been going into her room at the 30 min mark, gently applying pressure to her chest to get her through the jolt and then if she opens her eyes he does shhh/pat.  It hasn't been working.  The advice from Michelle makes me think maybe we need to unswaddle one arm and let her find her fist and do her mantra cry for self soothing?  When she does work her arms out of the swaddle it seems to keep her awake as she is obsessed with getting her fists into her mouth and sucking on them.  Therefore I use the paci to resettle and I'm sure its a prop at this point. 

I've posted our routine and had a suggestion that her A times were too long as they were 2 - 2.5 hrs.  So we've been trying to really watch the A time and overstimulation and shorten her A time to 1.25 - 1.5 hrs if she has a short nap.  Well today, let me tell you, she was having none of that!  She just layed in the crib and looked at me and would not fall asleep so after 20 minutes of shh/pat I gave up and fed her. Luckily she wasn't crying or fussing...  just not sleeping.  We'll keep trying for the short A times and hopefully it will sort itself out as many changes take days for the LO to adjust. 

I'm too scared to try wake to sleep so I figure we'll just keep going with this new plan for now.  Our new nanny starts next week and I'm wondering what will happen with that change in our life!?!

Will keep you posted.  Let me know if you've found something that helps your DD.

[Meg's Mom]

I've posted our routine and had a suggestion that her A times were too long as they were 2 - 2.5 hrs.  So we've been trying to really watch the A time and overstimulation and shorten her A time to 1.25 - 1.5 hrs if she has a short nap.  Well today, let me tell you, she was having none of that!  She just layed in the crib and looked at me and would not fall asleep so after 20 minutes of shh/pat I gave up and fed her. Luckily she wasn't crying or fussing...  just not sleeping.  We'll keep trying for the short A times and hopefully it will sort itself out as many changes take days for the LO to adjust. 

when our lo has a good nap she can do 2-2.25hr (but not first thing in the morning)... but if she has a short nap then 1.75 is about right for her.  But yes, give her several days to adjust. 

I read your other post and the advice you got sounded good.  Interesting that your LOs first nap is the worst, as that is our best one.  But if she starts out OT then it will all go down hill won't it. 

My LO also goes from fine to OT in a blink!! 

Keep me post and i'll do the same, good luck!

I'll definately let you know if w2s helps as i will start that tomorrow, can't be any worse!!

[deckchariot]

welcome to the thread pdx mommy!  If your lo is able to suck her fists, I would definitely try leaving one hand out of the swaddle - that's what we did with Abby, and she did eventually learn to find her thumb and would suck that to soothe herself when she woke.  Michelle's input on A times is spot on!

w2s - I don't even count the first week we tried it because I had no clue what to do and pretty much just woke her up all the time.  So then what I did was go in about 15 min before she usually woke up ad just sat in the rocking chair (across the room) and watched.  I didn't do anything.  I wanted to see when she woke and what happened as she was waking.  I did that for a couple days, so that I would be able to read her "cues" that she was about to wake.  Then what I did is go in about 10 min before the wake up, and watch her, once she started to show her "I'm about to wake up" cues, I would put my hand on her, if she kept "cueing" towards wake up, I'd start shhhhing, if the cues continued, I'd start rubbing, then patting (while still shhhhhing).  I'd say about half the time I was able to stop her from waking, the other half, she woke and I did pat/shh or pu/pd to get her back to sleep.  At first I was discouraged by the 50% success rate, but then I noticed that after about 10 days of that, just my hand on her would stop the waking, and then she didn't need me at all.

does that help?  Thanks for all your encouragement to me - sometimes I wonder if I'm helpful, so I'm glad that I am

let me know how it goes ladies!!!

michelle

[Meg's Mom]

Hi Michelle...i have lots to report!

Naps:
The past few days have been really bad for naps!  She wasn't extending and I was spending 20m patting her and she would wake...so frustating to not get anywhere.  Also getting waking after putting her to bed and having to spend up to 1hr+ getting her back to sleep!!

Well today out of desperation after spending ages this morning trying to extend and getting nothing more then a 30m nap+7+5+2 etc (while hoovering and replacing that darn paci a bunch of time).  So i decided to push her A time.  I read recently that LOs this age have a sleep window.  The ideal time for them to put them down to sleep in the after noon is between 12 to 2 and try to keep it to that time regardless of the first nap.  Try to find the balance between getting as close as you can w/o making them totally OT.  So i did, I kept her up till noon (a=2hr50m) and she slept 2 1/2 hrs!! I was so shocked.  I went in at 20m to catch the ot waking...didn't come.  Again went in at 30m and patted as she stirred.  She stirred again at 45, 60m, 1hr 45, 2hr.  It only took a paci replug to put her back to sleep. 

So what do i make of this?  More A time in general or was it the sleep window thing? 

Paci:
This good nap has gave me the courage to move forward and I decided to get rid of the paci too!!

I put her to bed w/o the paci tonight.     She cried for about 30m and then went to sleep.  As i expected she woke up 30m later and again cried but only for less then 5m (this waking can sometimes be 1m or 60m, even w/ a paci)!  I used shh/pat, a couple pu/pd and then the thing that seemed to help her most was singing our wind down song (nite nite maddie, nite nite maddie, nite nite maddie, time to go to sleep) OVER AND OVER and...

I am soo surprised at how easy it was.  I know tomorrow's naps won't be that easy but i feel good about our progress thus far!

I feel like i am flying by the seat of my pants here...i have a plan for the paci (repeat what i did tonight).  But i am not sure about the A times?  Any thoughts?

Kelly, how r u doing? 

PS:
Mantra:
I think i figured her mantra cry too...she doesn't do to if often, but it is a mmmmmm.  I was looking for a cry, cry.  I always called this her fussing/settling.  So i was doing this part right at least :-)

[deckchariot]

YAY for figuring out the mantra cry!  And well done on the paci and getting a good nap in.  I'm surprised that she made it to almost 3 hrs of A time - that seems like a lot for her age.  That being said, every lo is different.  I would say try to extend her A time in the am and see if that helps to extend the nap too.  Keep in mind, most lo's have their shortest A time in the am - and I don't think I'd try for 2 hr 50 min.....but that's just me   I know some moms have good success doing a napping by the clock - but most I know have done it around 6 mos, so Maddie seems young for that, but if its working, it's working.  There is a bit of flying by the seat of your pants!  It's all about figuring out what works best for your lo, and that's what you're doing!  Are you planning on weaning the paci for naps too?  I'm guessing that will also help with sleeping....keep me posted!

[Meg's Mom]

I think that A time and long nap was a 1 off.  Now that she is napping straight through A times are down to 1.75-2.00.  Yes i did say naping and NOT waking   

I was expecting naps to be hellish w/o the pac and I was expecting hours of crying :-)  I can't believe how easy it has been to wean her off the paci?! 

Day 1:
Nap 1 - cried for 5m then went to sleep.  woke at the 40m mark but went back to sleep v. easy for another 15m...I had to wake her to get Megan from school - just my luck!
Nap 2 – no crying or waking  Slept for 1h30m!
Nap 3 – crying as OT. Slept 30m.
BT – no crying, then woke 15m later took 1hr to settle but crying was off and on.
STTN!! From 7pm to 5.40am, I was too tired to do DF.

Day 2:
Nap 1 – cried for less then 5m and slept, slept…NO 30 or 40m waking!  She is still sleeping and we are at 1.40m

I did not believe that the paci was our problem, but I was wrong. I am soo happy to be wrong 

Thanks so much for your help, you have been a great cheerleader 

[deckchariot]

wow Michelle - that looks FABULOUS!!!  Well done!!!  You should absolutely share your story as you see other moms in the same situation!  I think you'd be a real encouragement to them!!!  Well done!!!!!

[Meg's Mom]

thanks michelle, i will/am def sharing my story to see it helps others.

BUT I'mm back for more advice....

Last week was great!!  Sleeping through the night, 2hr naps...then Sat megan came down w/ the cold, Mon Maddie has the cold and all progress has gone out the window.  I am just hoping it is the cold throwing her off. 

But the interesting thing is the 30m waking has been replaced by 40m waking...progress i guess!

But i am wondering if her routine needs tweeking?  I just don't know if i can extend much a time since she has a really hard time settling w/o the paci if OT.  Our BT the past two days have been terrible taking 30m to 60m to settle.  But since we are still in the 2 wk window of making the change (no paci) i should just ride it out until next week and see if she comes back after the cold or if this is regression when it stops.

thanks as always, hope you and your LO are well!

[Meg's Mom]

here is yesterday if helpful:

5:40 am woke up
5:55 am Fell asleep (slept for 20 min…maybe?)

6:15 am E, A
S 7:54-8.24 am put down to sleep (10m to settle, slept for 30 min - attempted extend 32m no luck)

9:46 am E, A
S 10:20-11.00 am put down to sleep (10m to settle, slept for 40 min)

11:00 am woke up E, A
S 1:28-2.08 & 2.10-2.56 pm put down to sleep (15m to settle, slept for 40 min - slept for + 46 min)


3:00 pm E, A
S 4:37-5.00 pm Fell asleep (right to sleep, slept for 23 min – attempted sleep 10m)

5:00 pm E, A

6:35 pm E
7.00 Bed it went all down hill! NO GO
7:30 pm stopped feed again while putting dd1 to bed.
8:12 right to sleep so hungry maybe?  Not tired enough before ? (slept for 40 min and needed resettle, right back to sleep).

10.00 DF
1.30 woke, E (never wakes this hour, but second day in a row at this hour!)
6.20 woke for E

really value your input on Bed time also...do you think i am getting it too late or too early?  OR something else...hungry maybe?  As this really, really frustrates me as dd1 is waiting to be put to bed to and poor soul gets me after i am to totally spent w/ dd2...kwim?

[deckchariot]

If she's got a cold, all bets are off at this point.  Honestly, I wouldn't make any routine changes at this point - other than flexing with her because she's sick.  In my short experience, sleep training while Abby was sick was just not possible.  If anything, she needed more sleep and less A time (but that did not mean her routine was off, she was sick and needed more rest to get better).  It's just really hard when our bubs are sick - you just have to do what you can til she's better.  If she's got a cold and her nose is stuffy, it's going to mess up her sleep.  We used the saline spray and suctioned out her nose before all sleeps.  I also had the children's plug-in vaporizer things, and that really seemed to help.

In terms of the 40 min waking - it absolutely could just be the cold waking her - again, especially if she's stuffy.  I would wait to look at your routine til she's feeling better.  Has the bedtime been an issue even when she was feeling well or has it gotten worse because of the cold?  If it's gotten worse since she's been sick, I'd wait to see if it settles back once she's feeling better.

Looking at yesterday, my guess is that she was way OT and that's why bedtime was a struggle.  And if she's not feeling well, that also seems to get worse at night.  I'd focus on helping her to feel better and then we can look at the routine a bit.  Hang in there!!!

michelle

[Meg's Mom]

thanks michelle, that is what i thought but is always soooo helpful to have someone else look at what is going on.  I do use saline and suction plus cold humd so i'll keep doing that an hope she gets better soon. 

you r a star!!

[deckchariot]

you are the star my dear   thanks though - you are so kind....hang in there...sick bubs are never fun, but I'm sure she just needs lots of love and she'll bounce back!

[Meg's Mom]

as you suggested, I decreased her A times yesterday (since i know i need more sleep when sick) and we got 3 naps decent naps  (all needed extending which is okay) + catnap AND she went down at BT great...

[deckchariot]

YAY!!!!  My dd always needs more sleep when she's sick, and the sleep she gets is almost always broken up, but you'll get through it and I'm sure she'll bounce back to a good routine!