How can I get my 2.5 year old to sleep later?

[Trentsmommy]

Hello,
My ds has been an early waker his whole life.  He currenly falls asleep between 7 and 7:40 pm and wakes up at 5 am or even a little before.  We had a stretch about 6 months ago when he would wake up, play his crib toy, and go back to sleep until about 5:45, which was ok for me.  Now, though, he is only getting about 9 and 1/2 hours of sleep.  His nap is anywhere from an hour and 15 minutes to an hour and 45 minutes.  He has a very touchy temperament, and has never gotten the amount of required sleep I read that he needs. He always has circles under his eyes- I know he is still tired!

Any suggestions for getting him to sleep later in the morning?  I did try moving his bedtime up in 5 or 1o minute increments, but stopped because it seemed to make no difference in when gets up!!  Whether he falls asleep at 7, or closer to 8 he still gets up at 5, and we are just so tired of it!
He has a very set bedtime routine (long wind down) and falls asleep on his own.
Thanks for the help!
Gail

[babyre33]

We are in a similar predicament.  Our dd sounds a lot like your lo in temperment and how they've always been early risers and sleeping less than others at their age.

How long have you left him in his room before getting him?
Have you tried keeping him up super late?

[Trentsmommy]

Hi,
It's nice to know there is someone else in the same boat!  I have never tried keeping him up real late.  I guess I could, just so I know I've tried everything!  He is just so sensitive that even when he has a really big day, like my in-laws coming over, it will disturb his sleep- we will here him cry in the night and then go back to sleep.

As far as for how long I've left him in there, usually not more than 15 minutes, but last week I admit I tried as much as 45.  If I go in and tell him to go back to sleep, he just gets extremely angry when I leave, so I think it's better to not go in.  Thoughts?

[babyre33]

Sounds like mine!

We had tried everything, until we just left her alone.  It took only one night of crying on and off for 35 min for her to stay in her bed for 10-11 hrs at night and wake around 7am!

We babied her WAY to much.  We never use to let her cry, but in our case it was the best thing for her.  Before we did it, though we explained to her what we were going to do, so at least she expected it!

[becky1969]

The only thing I would say is that when a child wakes after 9-10 hours sleep, it's typically a sign of being OT.  My son does this on occasion, and it's always because he either a) had a short nap during the day, b) went to bad too late, or c) is teething.

I think part of the problem might be that you let him treat that waking as the beginning of his day.  Have you tried soothing back to sleep? When my son does his OT early waking, he totally sounds awake! He wakes up chatting and playing.  We've done enough sleep training at this point where 50% of the time he'll go back to sleep on his own.  If he doesn't (and starts crying), then I go in, give him some warm milk, and cuddle him for about 10-15 minutes.  At that point, I put him back in his crib and say "It''s night-night time! Mama loves you!" and leave the room, whether he's asleep or not. He always falls asleep on his own at that point.

You might also try the wake-to-sleep method, since it sounds like you've got an habitual waking at this point. 


Basically, I think you've got 3 options:

1) Work on figuring out why he's overtired. Does he need to go to bed 30 minutes earlier? (i know you're already scared hearing that, b/c your wakings are so early already!) But if it IS overtired, an earlier bedtime may battle the OT problem, and get your son to have a more normal 11-12 hour night.

2) Treat that EW as a NW, and do whatever techniques work to get him back to sleep.

3) Try the WTS method so that you can break the habitual waking problem.

Since it's been going on so long, I'd be inclined to try methods 1 or 3.  Experiment with the OT problem and just TRY an earlier bedtime for 1 week.  Worst case scenario, you're in the same situation you're in now.  You could also get EARLIER wakings -- a 4 am waking may feel more like a NW to both of you, and then you can treat accordingly rather than be tempted to just start your day. Heck, my son has had EWs at 6 am because of being OT (went to bed WAY to late at 8:30, or something like that). I still treated as a NW and let him sleep until 8 am! 

Method 3 might work as well -- WTS is where you go in an hour before your child habitually wakes, and just gently touch them -- your goal is to get them to just stir in their sleep, not wake up.  You want them to move their head or body ro something mild like that.  The hope is that this will re-set their sleep clock and you'll change their sleep pattern.

I hope that works! It truly sounds like OT to me -- that's just too little night sleep. An early bedtime would be a great way to start, as scary as that sounds! (I got similar advice during the 2-1 nap transition -to wake him early from his 1st nap - and it nearly killed me to try it. Thank goodness I did, because it made the transition SO much easier!  ).

Good luck!

[legend_018]

Chayse turned 2 end of March. She never sleeps more than 10 hours. SHe naps anywhere from 1.5 hours to 2.5 hours.

Chaunda is almost 9 months old and she too won't sleep more than 10 hours at night.

[JoC]

We had a similar problem with our ds, he woke from 5.15 to 5.45 EVERY morning, and we could NOT get hime to sleep later, however, we did try this and it has worked, he now wakes at 6.15 to 6.30 every morning (early riser!)
Each night for a week i put him to bed at really random times, 1st night 9pm, second night 5.30pm, 3rd night 7.20pm etc etc, and miraculously he started settling his waking at this (not too much, but more acceptable) time. If he starts to wake earlier I do the same, only had to do it once over 3 days.
Not sure if this is a good method , but it did work for him

Jo

[lyndsy_p]

Just lurking here and it sounds like great advice by Becky1969. 30 mins earlier to bed will reset the OT clock for my LO. It does not result in an earlier wake up, unless you are doing it for days in a row.

Lyndsy

[Layla]

Gail, I would look at introducing a cue for when its time to wake up in the morning. With Isabella, we bought her a night light and put it on a timer, which was set to around 6am to start with. If she would wake before 6 (which she's done plenty of times), I'd take her back to her room and tell her its still night time and she needs to wait until her little light comes on as thats when its time to wake up.

Some get one of those bunny alarm clocks

But I'd have to say that with us if waking up 9.5-10hrs into the night would mean overtiredness. What time is the nap? Can you post your routine please?

Layla

[JenB1974]

We are in exactley the position with our DS - he is 2 yrs 3 months and very willful! For the last month he has been waking at somewhere between 4.45am and 5.15am which is a killer for my husband and I as we both work full time . His routine is typically:
Wake: 4.45-5.15
Nap: 12.30-1.30 (at creche)
Bed: 6.30pm (but takes 30mins to fall asleep)

I think I shall try the earlier bedtime as advised in other posts as we too tried a later bedtime and has not made any difference to waking! Yet he his yawning by 9am!! Any thoughts on his nap?  It is set by his creche so not sure if it is too much, although it's a bit of a vicious circle as by the time 12.30 come around he really needs the sleep!

Jen1974

[Trentsmommy]

Hi, thank you for all the suggestions:
Here is his routine:
wake 4:45-5:15
nap starts anywhere between 11:00 and 12:00 and lasts about an hour and 15 minutes; occasionally 1.5
(I've tried keeping him up later for a nap in hopes that he'll sleep longer, but nothing ever seems to stick!

His dinner and bath are around 5 or 5:30
long wind-down video and milk
go in his room about 6:15 and read books lights out by 7

I have tried the early bedtime, but maybe I kept it for too many nights, all it did was push his wake time even earlier. Haven't tried W2s in a long long time, I guess I could try that.

As far as cuddling and telling him to go back to sleep- NOT an option, he gets absolutely livid!  I was actually going to try just keeping him up until 8 or so, what do you think?

Oh yeah, the light on a timer, I did buy one a while back, but he think was too young... Now that you know his schedule, what should I start with?
Thanks! Gail

[JenB1974]

THink I've found the same problem with our earlier bedtime - last night DS came in at 2.10am and managed to coax him back to bed but had to hold his hand and sneak out but then he only lasted until 4.45am again, despite orignal early bedtime of 6pm instead of 7pm. He wouldn't buy the back to bed thing the second time round so hubby had to take over. God, I am so sick of it, I can't even think straight and am really starting to dislike my own son. Am I destined to have to go to bed myself at 8pm every night now just to get some sleep??

[Layla]

Gail, I would try to put him down for the night around 6-6.30pm to be honest as I do think he's quiet overtired and in our case waking up 9-9.5hrs into the night is overtired. So do an earlier bedtime for a few nights and then over a couple of weeks look at pushing out his nap until it starts around 12-12.30pm. The nightlight on a timer I would reintroduce as he'll probably understand the concept better now and just make sure that you don't start the day any earlier than 6am (for now). So if he wakes before 6am, and if he's crying then go to him and tell him its still night time and leave.

Personally I don't think that a later bedtime will help... never has here with us.

Jen I think in your case an earlier nap would help. Any chance they could put him down around 12pm?

[JenB1974]

Think it might be tricky to make nap earlier at creche because of their lunchtime - did post on another thread about also trying W2S which has not been successful and wondered if anyone had any tips about doing this - I have tried it at 4am for  nights but DS is still waking at 5!!