W2S question for Short Naps

[Gina M]

I read the FAQ and got the info on using W2S for naps and it sounds great.

I did try it a few times, a little differently, and this is what happened.

#1 try - I went into her room to try W2S about 15 minutes before her usual wake up time and just opening the door woke her up.

#2 try - I stayed in her room for her entire nap and she literally went from sound asleep to eyes popped open, saw me and smiled.

#3 try - I went in again a few minutes before she wil wake, and went she stirred I patted her gently. She simply woke up and cried as this completely irritated her.

I have never tried stroking her cheek to get her to stir and start another sleep cycle. To be honest I'm scared she'll simply wake and we'll have a bad day with OT. Would it even be worth trying? The reason I ask -

She is now 6 months old and has started napping better. She used to take three 40 min naps a day, and another one at the end of the day in a car (I can see from some other posts I am not the only one who does this). So 4 naps.
She now does 3 naps, 2 are 40 min and 1 is 2 hours! She still needs 1 of those naps to be longer. Since her 2 hour nap is not always the same one, and she is learning to nap better, so I bother with the W2S?

[deckchariot]

w2s is really most effective when your bub wakes at the same point during each nap - indicating a problem transitioning between sleep cycles.  The fact that she can do a 2 hr nap, and it's not always the same nap indicates that she can transition between sleep cycles.....so you may have a hard time figuring out w2s for each nap.  That being said, why don't you post your general EASY routine and we'll start by taking a look there and then see if w2s or a routine tweak or just waiting it out is the best option.  How does that sound?

michelle

[Gina M]

Sounds good - thanks!

Yes, she either takes the 2 hour nap in the morning or mid-afternoon, but hardly ever in the late afternoon, and that is the nap that always leads to an early bedtime, and then an early awake time. Perhaps just her body clock!

She is 6 mos old, and I have been trying to get her on a 4 hour EASY, but she is a hungry baby! I had a hard enough time doing a 3 hour EASY, it was more like 2.5, especially since she is a chronic short napper. Her S and E always,always overlap.

So, with that being said here is a typical day.

5:00a - E - wake and brief feed (trying to get her to wean off an early am feed)
5:30a - S
6:30a - wake - A
7:30a - E - fully this time
8:15a - S
9:00a - wake - A, feed a little solids
10:45a - E
11:15a - S (will wake after 40 min, coo for 20 and go back to sleep for another 60-70 min)
1:15p - awake - A
2:30p - E
3:15p - S
4:00p - A
4:45p - snack (I breastfeed and she often cluster feeds at night, and lately I try just to give her a snack so she won't be so fussy)
5:15p - bath
5:30p - final feed
6:00p - S

I would love to be able to extend her day, but the waking from her last nap shortens it.
I have tried the catnap at 5:30 - and no can do, no matter what!

So that's why I was going to try the W2S for her third nap.

Phew!

[brenda2]

hi
well, at 6 mo 1 long nap and 2 short naps is really not that bad, her total daytime sleep is probably ok.  we often had that kind of schedule with DD at that age... i don't think you want that last nap to be longer, you want it to be later in the day.  you want the first nap to be longer (which would make your last nap later), so you could try w2s for it or just adjusting your schedule may help.

i would try:
6:30 wake
7:00 milk
8:00 solids
8:30 sleep (you want this first nap to be a bit later than what you've been doing so you get a longer nap...45 min naps can mean OT or UT, but by the look of your other A times i would bet UT for this nap as you put her down after just 1.75 hours)
10:00 awake
10:30 milk
12 sleep
1:30 awake
2 milk
3:30 sleep
4:15 awake
4:15 milk
6:00 milk
6:30 bedtime

since she is just 6 mo, you want only solids for breakfast, then add in lunch in a few weeks.  you always want to give milk first, then solids.

that is what i would do, if she wakes up early you would adjust your A times to shorter because she won't be as well rested.  you want to try to stretch her to feeding milk every 4 hours, but i've given you a schedule for feeding every 3.5 (except for the cluster feeding at night), but you know what to work towards.  if you can wean her off that 5 am feed and feed milk when she wakes up it would look a little different.

what do you think?

maybe michelle can add what she would do too

[Gina M]

This looks good. Thank you. I am going to try to put her down a little later tomorrow am. I always have a hard time with the am nap because she yawns like crazy! I thought I should be putting her down earlier?

Sometimes what happens too is - she takes a short nap, so her next S and E overlap, so I feed her early, but sometimes she nurses for so long, her A time ends up being too long, and then the OT comes in. Sigh.....

And I thought men were trouble! 

[deckchariot]

Brenda is right on target (thanks Brenda!) if you can work towards that Gina, I think it will help.  In terms of E and S overlapping - I would often do 1 breast before nap and 1 after - I never could figure out if it was better to feed before the nap or try to get her to sleep, so I split the difference so to speak

[brenda2]

LOL! 

no, you want to slowly stretch out that first A time.  it's an extension of their night time sleep so you don't want them to be able to make up for night sleep too early.  stretch 10 min every few days...

i know it's hard when they take short naps, it messes up the whole day.  i've been there!  but it does tend to get better if you can stretch out the feeds and at least make that as consistent as you can.

keep us posted

[Krissy18]

am i allowed to bud into this post?  if not , maybe someone can send me the rules for this forum as i seem to be kinda all over the place.
ive posted my routine in a few places but im not really sure if i need a tweak or not. my issue is very similar to this one. we are getting one long nap a day, its either the last one or the early afternoon one. the morning one is always 30-45 min and then the next one is either 1-2 hours or 30-45 min. if the early afternoon one is long, then there is no third nap and if its short there is a really long third nap which helps to get to bedtime. my question is about A time. if one is chronically OT as i think my lil one is..what is the rule with A time.. it seems he is always tired so i just never get the right time. really OT means crying . UT means talking for too long in the crib before sleeping but then its only for 30-45 minutes.
I know i sound like a broken record but I really need some help. im a young , first time mom, and i dont wanna be all over the place. i really want this routine to work and to have my happy baby back

[brenda2]

hey krissy.  HUGS
there's no rule for A time like if he sleeps this long at this age he needs this amount of A time following it.  all LOs are different and can tolerate different amounts of A time at different ages.  if he does a long nap he'll be able to tolerate a bit more A time, after a short nap a little less.  you need to follow your LOs cues and put him down when you see the tired cues, it's about getting to know your baby.  it also takes a bit of trial and error i think.  whenever you try a new routine tweak it'll take a few days for him to catch on and see results.

[Gina M]

Well this morning she woke at 5:45a, I fed her at 6:05a and put her back to bed. She did not however want to go back to sleep. Usually she does! So at 6:45 I went and got her, fed her some solids, gave her a little play time, and then put her down for a nap at 7:45. She fell asleep at 8:00 and at exactly 8:40 woke up.
It has oonly been in the last 2 weeks that she started taking longer naps, but looks like we are back to short naps. Yesterday she did not take any long naps at all, and we had to give her her last one in the car, she was so fussy.
And today with a day starting at 5:45a, her day will surely end early, which leads to another EW and I am trying to break that habit too!

BTW - I love how everyone on this site gives HUGS. Hugs back! I hope you all had a good mother's day. I only changed one diaper yesterday.

[Krissy18]

i am not good at all at reading his cues..for instance this morning he woke at 730, by 745 he was rubbing his eyes. and by 8:00 he was already doing this position he does when he sleeps in his chair. surely he was not ready for his nap already. i put him down at 845, he is still not sleeping and its past 930, he is screaming now..i dont know what to do. im giving up.

[Gina M]

I hear ya! I have said so many times I am giving up.
This morning while I was typing she fell back asleep - and that was after 25 minutes of babbling. I hear her now. She slept another 55 min. VERY WEIRD. And this was just after I was saying I give up! tomorrow was a day from hell, and this morning at 5:45 was not pleasant either. We'll see how the rest of the day goes.

[Krissy18]

adam was put down at 845 and its 1005 and he is still not sleeping. I am worriied that he is spending way too much time in his crib with this sleep training. i am trying to avoid 4 or 5 short naps so i leave him there till he falls asleep for a decent nap. but i am worried that now he does not just associate the crib with sleep. i dontknow any baby that takes over an hour to put themself to sleep, this is very very frustrating for me and dH cause our days our spent napping this LO. ..god love him butwe have no other life lately and for the amount of time and effort we have put into this we are not seeing results and we still have a miserable baby for most of the day..its realy too bad..cause we he is happy so are we but this just seems to be a viscous circle we cant break.

[Gina M]

I have to tell you, my LO has been a short napper since she was born, and she is 25 weeks old. I have been nap training her for FOUR months. It is hell, but I keep trucking along. She is usually a good sleeper at night, but in the last week that has changed. I am hoping she is getting back on track. From what I can tell babies get on and off track all the time with sleep until they are over 18 months old. UGH. Who has the patience or perseverance? Right? I feel that way a lot - and she is so cute, and so innocent and does not know any better.

Plenty of kids take an hour to settle. There are CIO books that tell you to leave your child to cry for an hour for naps, give up, and then put down for next nap a little earlier, and let them cry for an hour again, and so on, and then have an early bedtime. some people do this with their kids 1-2 weeks depending on their age and how many props they have been using. This is NOT the BW way - she does not believe in CIO. If he is just mantra crying, let him be. It is hard I know.

MY LO took OVER a month to stop mantra crying at naps.

Sometimes I take her in the car to get her some sleep to get back on track, or I let her fall asleep on my while nursing to get caught up (I know can lead to AP, but I don't do it all the time).
I also find that if she takes a short nap, I put her down earlier (15-20 min) , but not too early or she won't sleep. The 1.5 - 2.5 hr cycle keeps them in their bio-rhythms throughout the day.

I am dying to get rid of the early bedtime, early wake time cycle, and the short naps ruin it, but I can't force her to sleep - hence looking for some advice on this forum. I really go CRAZY some days b/c the short naps ruin feeding times, I get NOTHING done, and I can't catch up on my own sleep. I too worry about her spending so much time in her crib.

[Krissy18]

ive been at it for 2 months almost. its hell.
he just takes so long to fall sleep. usually there is no crying as he is a good self soother. but i do admit that we did have to do SOME CIO for  acouple days to wean his paci and this is when i really didnt know about any other method..thank God it didnt last long and if i had to do it again i prob would not have done that.

do you really think early to bed causes early to rise?

my son is totally OT. he is miserable and so am i right now most of the day. i just want to him help sleep to be a happy baby so we can actually go out and enjoy ourselves, especially with the summer around the corner.