5.5mnth 25,45 min naps and early bedtime with nightwakings

[coleymail]

UUUUUGH!  I am at my wits end as I feel like I have tried everything and have read this entire site and nothing seems to work.  Please help.  DD is on 3.5 hr easy as of last week and transitioned well.  I am trying to get to 4hr Easy as she seems ready.  She seems to be able to handle a 2 hr A time with no problem.  She is most consistent with the 45 minute nap for the 1st and 2nd and if she takes the 3rd it is 25.  I have had some success with leaving her in room for 20 minutes and then she goes back to sleep for another 45minutes.  I don't let her go more than 20 b/c if she does fall asleep I will be waking her for feed.  She has an early bedtime as she is exhausted by this time and goes down easily.  She is breasfeed only and starting some cereal.  Pick up/put down seems to only make her more angry and shh/pat seems to only work for NW's if not hungry.

Here is her schedule

6:30-7am wake
E 7am
A 7-9
S 9-9:45
A 9:45-10:30
E 10:30
A 10:30-11:30
S 11:30- 12:15
A 12:15-2:00
E 2:00
S 2:15- 3 nurse to sleep as she has been awake 2 hours
A awake now until bedtime as she has had 3 naps that are short and will not sleep again, sometimes if I do get a longer nap in AM ( never over 1:15 min she will take a 25 min nap for the 3rd nap
E 4:00 almost always wants to eat here as a cluster regardless of time fed before
Bath 5:45
Bed and final small feed 6:15-6:30

Wakes sometime between 9pm and 11:30 for a feed and is so inconsistent on time I can never find a time to DF
Wakes sometime between 2-4 for a feed

Eats well at both feeds and returns to sleep

Another problem is she is very distracted even in a dark quiet room while BF during day although she seems to be a very efficient eater feeding are about 6 min total, at night she is very calm and will feed as long as 10-12 min.

Help with any and all would be cherished

[brenda2]

hi coleymail and welcome to the boards!   

a few questions and we'll see if i can help at all:

she is 5.5 months old now?
does she wake up after 45 min or are you waking her up?
does she go to sleep independently?
any props?
has she ever had long naps?
how many NWs?  only the one for a feed?

if she is 5.5 months old she seems a bit low on daytime sleep so i think she is OT which can cause all kinds of problems incouding short naps and NWs...but answer my questions and i'll get back to you.

[coleymail]

Thank you for responding I am desperate for help.  She is 5 months and 3 weeks and she wakes up exactly at 45 minutes although if she is very tired or had only a 25 minute nap first she can sleep over an hour and has slept 2 1/2hrs in the past month.  She goes to sleep with eyes open and does use a paci for soothing.  I think the paci is a prop only sometimes as she sometimes will fuss for a few minutes before falling asleep and paci has fallen out and she falls asleep without and also at night feedings she does not need paci to go to sleep.

Last nights night wakings after bedtime-
Woke at 9pm took paci to sleep- usually will not take paci and must feed then no wake before 2am
11pm feed
1:15 took paci
2:30 feed
woke this morning early at 6am

currently she is napping early as she woke early so I put her down after 1:40 wake and she went right to sleep, I just heard a peep at about 25min but not sure if she is awake.  This early nap is hard as I must get preschooler to school at 8:30 so I may have to wake her.

Nicole

[coleymail]

just wanted to add to last response- she woke from morning nap at 25minutes- uuuggghhhh I thought I had it this morning

[brenda2]

ok...and what does she do when she wakes up early from a nap?  is she happy?  upset and crying?  cranky for the following A time?  what does she do when she wakes up at night?  chatting, screaming, crying?

waking up at 30 min means OT, waking after 45 min can mean OT or UT or it means that she can't transition from one sleep cycle to the next.  it can be different day and night.  i'm a little concerned about the use of the paci, it may be causing you some troubles if she needs it to go to sleep for naps and then can't transition without it into the next cycle. 

also she seems very OT, especially if only getting 2.25 hours of sleep in a 12 hour day - my Lo was getting closer to 4 hours at that age.  she'll need more naps if they're all only 45 min and that last A time of the day is way too long.  if she won't take another catanp late in the day you'll have to put her to bed earlier than you are to avoid the OT.

[coleymail]

When she wakes up she is almost always happy from naps and really never cranky during A time.  Which makes it hard to think she is OT but I do believe you are right as her daysleep is so little. 

When she wakes at night she is crying no matter what.  So either paci, or feed or a bit of back rub if a tummy ache.  We never pick up unless it is time to feed.  No rocking or walking either.

Do you think it is a problem that we normally have an 11 hour day and 13 hour night?  Also, I can get her to take a late afternoon nap sometimes in stroller but then do not know when to put her down for bed as she is more awake.  The times she has this nap ( very short 25-40) I put her to bed and she talks for 30-40 minutes then falls asleep.  So much info, I hope this makes things clearer.
Nicole

[brenda2]

we never had luck putting her back to sleep if she woke up happy from a nap.  so the 45 min naps may be due to UT then...do you get a longer nap if you stretch her A time a bit (just 10 min or so)?  i'm saying UT for the first few naps but by the end of the day she may be OT due to cumulative lack of sleep.

i think you should push back your first 2 naps a bit and see if that helps shift your day and get a longer nap out of her.

i think a 13 hour night sleep is fine especially with less day time sleep.

you could do a very short catnap (30 min) and then aim for bedtime about 1.5 hours after she wakes from this.

something like:
7 wake and milk
9:15 - 10:45 sleep
11 milk
1-2:30 sleep
3 milk
4:30 to 4:45 - 5 to 5:15 sleep
5:15 milk
6:30 milk
6:45 bedtime

we finally dropped the catnap for good around 7 months...so she may be gearing up to drop it but isn't ready yet.

does that help?  maybe someone else can offer what experience...

[coleymail]

Thank you-  i will try for catnap today and later naps tomorrow and let you know.

[Elfkleeman]

Hi. Thanks for this posting as I have a similar situation. DD is 5 Mo, 16 days and we started EASY only two weeks ago.  What does UT stand for?

[brenda2]

UT is undertired.  they have to be tired enough to take a long nap but if they're too tired you get a short one.  tough to get that perfect amount of A time!

coleymail, how was today?

[coleymail]

Not a great day.  I put her down after  2 hrs and 10 min of A this morning and she slept for 19minutes!!!!!!!  not really a nap, she stayed in crib cooing and talking for 20 minutes after then cried on and off for 10 minutes until I put paci in and then she slept for 30 minutes.  2nd nap was 45 and 3rd nap was 45.  So still 2.25 or hours of day.  Her night was much better.  She woke at 9pm for paci and then I dreamfed at 10:10 she slept until 2:40 when woke for feed then slept til 7am.  So really only 1 NW for food.  I don't know where this 9pm wake for paci has come from it was not here before but seems to have snuck in this past week.  Do I try for earlier nap  for first nap and see what happens? is she just not ready for a long nap.  My older daighter did not start sleeping lonfer in day until about 6 months but I was not on EASY.  I am ready to just wait it out and get sleep when I can.

[brenda2]

i would watch the paci use, it's around this age that they can become dependent on them.  we had a major paci addict at 5 mo and had to wean it.  best thing i ever did!  it doesn't sound like it's a problem at night but something is preventing her from transitioning to a longer nap during the day.  it may be something she grows out of (most short nappers will eventually take a longer nap)...hope so!

are you shortening the A time after when you get a short nap?

NW early in the evening can be due to OT at bedtime, did she go down easily at bedtime?

[brenda2]

have you tried wake to sleep?

[coleymail]

I am so afraid to attempt getting rid of paci.  The few desperate time we have tried CIO she cries forever and doesn't give up.  I know I am in the cold turkey category but just not sure I am ready or even if she is.  My first daughter just dropped the paci  and started napping longer at 6 months.  I feel like I am going crazy wondering what to do.  I will do a bit of reading on W2S.  Thank you

[brenda2]

if you decide to get rid of the paci, it's really not that bad.  i don't suggest CIO at all, BW approach does not support it.  pu/pd or shhh pat work well to calm the LOs as they learn to sleep without the paci.  she doesn't seem that hooked on it anyway as sometimes she is sleeping without it...but i just wonder since she seems to wake for it and has to have it for naps.  might be worth a try.  we did cold turkey and it was really only 2 bad nights.  but if your LO doesn't need it for nights, just naps it would be easier - no sleepless nights anyway!