4am starts draining me completely

[emz1907]

It seems with my lo its one sleep problem after another. We just got over a bout of multiple nw's (with the help of some lovely people in the nw board) but now he is waking every morning between 4-4.30am and will not go back to sleep. Needless to say I can't see straight for tiredness, I know I should sit down and re-read the bw books but right now I don't have the time nor the brainpower to concentrate on it so Im hoping someone can give me a few tips or explain it to me.
He wakes like I say at 4-4.30am, I hear him babbling moving around etc. I leave him to it as he isn't crying out in the vain hope he will fall back asleep. He does cry out eventually, so I go in and he has managed to get himself in some awkward position he can't get out of. I put him back on his back, sometimes pop his paci back in few soothing 'shhh's' and straight back out. I might repeat this a few times until it gets near 5.30am and he starts to get more cranky. This is when I usually cave and go change his nappy and make his first feed. I normally give him this around 5.45am then put him down again around 6.30-7ish for his next nap as he has already been awake 2.5hrs+ by then which is pretty much as much as he can handle right now. He will sleep for 1-2hrs at this time, occasionally he will do a 40min nap but not frequently. This has been the same for the last week apart from this morning he woke at 5am although Im now doubting whether that was the case or if I was simply so comotose I didnt hear him until then??
I know someone will ask for our routine, Im afraid it does vary depending on nap lengths and if we have been out of the house or not. Today we did have to go out on the middle of the day but this was what his day looked like...

5am - wake
5.45am - E
7.30am - S
9.30am - wake
9.45am - E
12.00pm - S (in car as we were out)
12.45pm - wake
2.00pm - E
4.10pm - S (he was visibily tired but resisted sleep until I took him out in buggy)
5.30pm - wake
6.00pm - E
6.30pm - bath/bed time routine
7.00pm - S

He doesn't have a df, and stopped night feeds at about 5 months. He doesnt wake again until the ew at 4/5am, and actually the above routine is different slightly to how it normally goes as bed time is normally earlier with him. He really struggles with the afternoon nap BUT still needs it as he gets very tired and cranky after being up a few hours after his midday nap there's no way I could stretch him out until bedtime without it. I often end up wheeling him around in his buggy to get him off, other naps he goes down fine. Also if he does fall asleep in his cot in the afternoon he always wakes crying which is something he doesnt do any other time, like he's not ready to wake but can't get back off. Ive tried allsorts but he usually ends up waking properly. So if the afternoon has gone wonky we sometimes end up starting his bath etc at 5pm and he can even be asleep as early as 5.30pm some nights! Ive taken previous advice to try and extend his day slowly but surely but one short nap and the whole lot goes out the window.

With the early waking situation the things Ive tried so far are...
feeding assuming its hunger - he doesnt take a full feed and does get sleepy while drinking but then stays awake to have a poop as he always does after first feed of the day so it doesnt make him sleep again and screws up the rest of our EASY times for that day.

Ignoring - but he gets cranky eventually as he wiggles around while hes awake and gets stuck in awkward positions so I have to go and move him.

Nappy change - tried this as soon as I hear him thinking it may be waking him up having an uncomfortable nappy but for all he is pretty wet by this time changing just seems to wake him even more and make him giggle so no chance of him going off after this

My brain has given up now, Im sure I had more to say but I can't remember. Can anyone shed some light, help me please?? I can't keep starting my day this early Im running myself into the ground, I start back at work soon too and I know I wont cope on this much sleep

[claires mum]

Poor you...sending lots of hugs.  It will get better !!

Here are a few thoughts:

1)  Routine.  At 6 months, the average A time is around 2.5 hours.  So you are right not to allow any long stretches of A time beyond this amount.  He should be able to handle 2.75-3  hours around 6.5/7 months.  If the pm nap is starting to get cut short (greater than 45 mins but less than 1.5 hours..then it's time to increase the A time by 10 or 15 minutes).  Are you always in the car for the pm nap..or was this a one off?  It's important to try and get that nap extended to 1.5 hours.  I can give you some tips if you're not sure how to approach this.

If you have short naps in the day then definitely get that catnap in the pm.  Your doing the right thing.

Most of us aim for a 12/13 hour day depending on our LO's tolerances.  So if your LO is waking at 5, but going to bed at 7...this is a very long day.  I would be putting him down at 6.00 and hoping that he wakes up a little later.  Early bedtimes work well to push out an EW.

2)  If he is regularly waking at a set time in the am (4.00 or 4.30), then I would also try W2S for a few days.  You need to go in an hour before the waking time and gently rouse but not wake him.  Roll him over, touch his cheek...whatever will rouse him out of one sleep cycle without fully waking up.  The hope is that he slips straight back to sleep and will have 2 full sleep cycles (2 hours) before waking up for the day.

What do you think?

[emz1907]

I had thought it might need W2S to be honest, but I haven't read enough on it to be confident to approach it (plus Im scared of waking him fully!)

I know what you mean about his long day, but normally he is asleep by 6pm the last few days have been a bit of a fluke as his afternoon nap has been later/longer than normal. The earlier bedtime has made no difference so far anyway. Actually this morning he actually went back to sleep which he has never done!! He woke at 4am on the dot and at about 4.40 he was crying so I went in and his eyes were shut like he was trying to settle. I popped his paci in and at 4.45 all went quiet! The next time I heard him was 6am so Im happy this morning, although dont expect that to happen again.


We arent always in the car for the pm nap, more often than not we're in the house but its very hit and miss as to whether he'll settle down or not. I'd say 75% of the time he fights it and gets very ot which means I whip him into the buggy and walk around outside with him as he calms and drops off. I was aware of this happening more and more but people on here told me the afternoon nap is kind of a freebie therefore its ok to use the buggy or the car etc to get him off if Im having trouble. All other naps go pretty well its just this one we have trouble with. I understand he will soon be trying to drop this nap?? I cant imagine him ever being able to survive on 2 naps a day LOL

[claires mum]

Well that sounds terrific...who knows, he might surprise you and keep doing what he did today.  Well done letting him settle this morning..it's important not to go in to quickly.  And the catnap in the buggy/car is just fine. 

Here's some info on resolving the habitual waking...let me know what you decide to do:

Wake-to-Sleep Option 1:  This method may be most effective for a younger infant who is accustomed to the shush/pat method.   "Instead of waiting for her to wake, go into her room after thirty minutes, because that's when she first starts to come out of deep sleep.  (Remember that sleep cycles are usually forty minutes.)  Before she comes all the way up to consciousness, pat her gently until you see her body relax again.  It could take fifteen or twenty minutes of gentle patting.  If she starts to cry, though, you'll have to send her back to sleep with P.U./P.D." 

Wake-to-Sleep Option 2:  This method may be more effective for an older baby who has begun to find shush/pat distracting.  Stir baby 5-10 minutes before baby tends to wake. You go in the room 5-10 minutes before they tend to wake up and gently rub their cheek, head etc until baby BARELY stirs and then you let go.  You are attempting to pull baby from deep sleep to then start a new sleep cycle. You do not actually wake baby up.  If you are not totally sure if baby moved, wait a minute or two and do it again. This is better then doing it too much and waking baby fully.  A bare movement usually works.  If your baby still wakes up, you can try doing the wake-to-sleep a few minutes sooner the next nap.  You really have to experiment with the timing.  A few babies have a hard time stirring.  These moms have had some success with just turning them over or moving their entire body in some way. 

Pressure at the Jolts:   This method is different than wake-to-sleep, but may help get your baby through a habitual waking, particularly for an unswaddled younger infant who twitches a lot during sleep transitions.  You place one hand on your baby's legs, the other on baby's chest and attempt to assist baby through the jolts.  You would do this a few minutes before the jolts that wake baby occurs.  You apply pressure until baby stops jolting, plus about 5 minutes. If, after 5 minutes, baby hasn't moved any more, you can stand  back and see what happens.  If baby wakes fully, you will have to employ your typical method of sleep to send them back to sleep.  Some babies you have to also shield their eyes with your hand to stop them from looking around.  If you use a paci you can reinsert the paci when and if your baby looks for it.  This would be when baby is searching for it with his or her mouth.

[emz1907]

Thanks for the info. How long is considered a full nights sleep? just he was doing 10hrs straight which is probably quite good but its that the 10hrs finshes so early in the morning. Im just wondering if Im wanting him to sleep longer than he actually can iykwim?

This morning I woke at 5am and heard him babbling, but Im pretty sure he had been awake a while already and I just didnt hear him. I hate that as it often happens and I have no clue of the exact time he woke making timing the first nap a bit hit and miss.

[claires mum]

Yes that can make it tricky.  At 6.5 months you would be hoping for longer than 10 hours at night.  In my mind there is a sleep bank that each baby has and there are just so many hours that they need to sleep in 24 hours.  Providing they catch up during the day, then a short night isn't so bad...it's just painful for everyone else in the house iykwim.  Is he getting a good 3-4 hours during the day?

[emz1907]

Usually yes, some days it is less but he normally manages 2 good naps and a shorter catnap.

This morning he cried at 2.40am as he was stuck at the bottom of his cot. I went in and his eyes were still shut so I put him back and he went back to sleep. But Im really confused as I could swear I heard him babbling and looked at the clock and it was 3.50am. I thought oh great its not even 4 and he's been awake already! I lay back down and was kind of semi concious, I still heard him babbling and looked again at the clock and it was 6am!? Now either I misread the clock first time and it was really 5.50am, or I fell asleep for 2 hrs and didnt hear him (don't think this would happen but Im so tired who knows). So this morning I had no clue when to put him back down for his nap. I tried watching for his signs and at 7.30am he started rubbing his eyes on my shoulder so I thought he must be getting tired. I put him down after a nappy change and he fell asleep at 7.45am. Im now worried that he's either been awake from 3.30am ish (but he seemed very perky at 6 so not sure) OR he really did just wake up at 5.50 therefore Ive put him down too early. Am I the only one who doesnt know the exact moment their lo wakes up? This happens quite often and it makes it so hard to time that first nap.

[emmas]

Just seen your post - I had quite a while of 4am starts - I honestly believe its a phase and all the tips Claires Mum has given you help to minimise the starts but it does get better. 

And NO you aren't the only one who doesn't know when your baby wakes - mine used to babble very loudly, now he wakes and just walks around his cot in silence - I only found this out because I needed to sneak into his room!  Makes things difficult for the first nap - only real solution is a video monitor but then you have to be awake to watch it LOL!

[emz1907]

I wish I could video him and watch it back LOL! Glad Im not the only one this happens to, he's been asleep an hour so far so hopefully that means he wasnt ot therefore maybe wasnt up as early as I thought.

So what do you do in the morning when you have no clue when he has woken? does he cry eventually then that wakes you? Im just curious as to how other people deal with it as my lo doesnt often display signs that he is tired and if he does its often when he is crossing into ot so its too late.

[emmas]

At 6 months he would cry after about 30 mins of being awake - he is now nearly 11 months and hardly ever cries - too busy throwing his toys out of the cot LOL!

I just assume what time he has woken - and try and get him down for a nap after what I thought, sometimes i'd only get 35 mins, I could never extend but at that age I could get him up and put him down again after an hour or so to catch up.  Its really tough and sort of ruins your day, I'm quite lucky in that as long as ds isn't OT by bedtime he will sleep well at night regardless of whether he has had 35 naps, just make sure his A time before bed isn't too long.

[emz1907]

Wonder if this is a problem a lot of mums have? Your lo is so cute BTW I love that pic

[emmas]

Thank you - Yours too - I hope you helped him eat that egg!!

It must be - we can't be the only ones with silent children!

[ginadsp]

LOL

Nope your not the only ones. I have the exact problem! Except my completly confused body actually wakes me up 10 minutes before him at 3:50 just in time to listen to him have his crib party, then fall asleep only to wake 30 minutes later. Or at least that's what I think. Who knows he doesn't wake me crying just loves to hang out in that crib untill I get him.  If I had any more energy I think I would be crying. I think I am suffering from OT and it is making me have a problem with EW. LOL

[lilmonkey]

Oh, you are definitely NOT alone.  DS is the same way.  He can wake up and be totally quiet.  It's great to have a video monitor but I have to be awake to see when he wakes.  So even if he wkaes at 6 or later I still start my day way before that.  Dh says that it isn't ds with the EW problem but me.  I can't seem to get MY internal clock shifted.  LOL

HUgs to us all!

[emmas]

Mimi,  I take it DH gets up with ds EVERY day at 5am then!!