Why with good EASY routine still NW/EW???

[G and G]

Thanks to both of you. I will stick with it and keep you posted.

The last 3 nights she has been asleep between 6 and 6:30pm. 2 out of 3 of those mornings she woke up before 5am! I think she is an 11 hour a night sleeper. If I put her back to bed she seems to nap less. So either I've got to get up at 5:00am or be stuck with short naps.
Since she keeps getting up so early, she needs an early bedtime - I'd love to get out of that cycle somehow.

One morning she did sleep til 6:20am (yippeeee), but I think that was only because in the middle of the night she was soiled to the bone, needed to be cleaned - changed - the works, and she had a melt down over it. Whenever she has a meltdown she sleeps forever.

Yesterday she napped like crazy - so unusual for her I was even going to bring her to the doctor! She was asleep by 6:00pm last night, but woke up at 4:50am and had NO intentions of going back to sleep. She took a 1 hour nap yesterday morning, woke up, and after 45 minutes needed another nap, and slept for 2 hours!  She took a catnap of 30 min arund 3:30pm.
I am trying to aim for 2 naps, but either her naps are short, and/or her first one is often before or around 8am that it is hard to get through the day with only 2.
This morning I got her down too late (on her third outfit by time I could get her down - one of those mornings - UGH) and she only slept for 35 min. So around and around and around we go. She wakes from her naps happy, so I can't even do Pu/PD to put her back to bed.

So, again I'll keep you posted. Perhaps I can somehow get her to sleep til 6am!

[G and G]

Well we have had an interesting weekend. My LO is getting up BEFORE 5am! BUT my DH tried to soother her yesterday to no avail, and after an hour I went in and fed her, put her back to bed, and she DID fall back asleep until 7am. She then had two great naps - 2 hours, and then 90 minutes, went to bed at 6pm. She woke up at 5am, and at that point had slept 11 hours without a peep, so I thought it was unfair to try and soothe her back to sleep - I think she was just done sleeping. I let her play in her crib for a while, then went and got her about 5:45am.
Now - if she decides to have two good naps today, I think she will still need a catnap at the end of the day - otherwise her bedtime will be 5pm, and she'll wake at 4am?
I am not sure how to tackle this?
Any advice would be appreciated. Thanks!

[stagemanager2]

I would try a catnap... it may get her to the right bedtime for you...

[G and G]

PLEASE HELP.

Yesterday we DID try a catnap and she did not go to sleep, so we put her to bed at 5:30pm and she woke at 4:30am with NO intentions of going back to sleep. I work at night and NEED to get some sleep. I cannot get up at 4:30am! MY DH went in to soothe her, and she calmed down, started babbling, but never went to sleep. At 6am I went and got her. What time am I supposed to put her to sleep today? 4:30pm? and then we start the day tomorrow at 3:30am? I don't know what else to do. This has been going on for over a month. I am so depressed and frustrated.
I put her down at 7am because she had been awake for 2.5 hours. After 20 minutes of playing in her crib and STILL no intentions of going to sleep, I got her up again, put her down at 8am, and she slept for a silly 45 minutes.
I think she must be confused because some mornings we get her up, and others we don't, but it depends on the time she gets up. I am going OUT of my mind completely!
She just does not sleep more than 11 hours at night. I don't think forcing her to stay awake longer at night will work, it might backfire, but I cannot do this anymore! Is there anything else we can do besides an early bedtime? I am crying everyday and can barely work at night I am so tired!
Thanks for listening to me.

[stagemanager2]

oh hun, huge hugs...

I know it is frustrating and hard right now... If she goes down for bed at 4:30 tonight wake her again.  Make sure you only keep her up for a little bit but it might help shift the schedule a bit. 

We have done this many times with ds when his schedule gets crazy!  We get those EW and it makes the whole household messy... I completely understand.  Do you wanna post your schedule for the last day or two?  We could take another look at em...

[G and G]

Thank you so much! I am so tired I can't think straight. When I come home from work at night, I pump, take a shower and go to bed - often times without eating and barely even talking to my hubby. We hardly have a relationship right now at all, and it depresses me! But I am too sleep deprived to do anything about it. UGH.

We have been putting our LO to bed before 6:15pm for 8 days now, and the EW are getting worse , not better. I am thinking of keeping her up later at night - and yes it might make an ugly night, and not stop the EW right away, but at least she will be tired from the EW to go back to sleep. Now she just sleeps 11 hours - even if the catnap is skipped, and simply is not tired to go back to bed. She is ready to start the day. OR - put her to bed at 5 or 5:30, wake her around 7 - keep her in her room with low lighting, change her diaper, maybe feed her a little, and put her back to bed? Not sure which one of these ideas is worth a try.

Here is the routine from the last couple of days.

Friday, May 30, 2008 (went to sleep at 5:50pm the night before)
4:50a – wake
5:50a – feed
6:10a – asleep
6:20a – awake again 
7:00a – solids
7:53a – asleep
8:30a – awake
8:45a – asleep
9:38a – awake again
10:00a – feed
12:00p – in crib
12:08p – asleep
12:45p – awake
1:30p – feed
2:00p – over to Eileen’s
3:40-4:20p – nap in car on way home
4:30p – snack
5:25p – bath
5:45p – final feed
6:20p - asleep

Saturday, May 31, 2008
4:20a – wake
4:35a – sleep
5:00a – wake – DH tried to soothe
5:35a – feed
6:00a – asleep
6:55a – wake
7:10a – solids
8:20a – walk outside
8:45a - feed
9:22a – in crib
9:27a – asleep
11:30a – awake!
12:25p – feed
1:20p – walk outside
1:35p – solids
1:58p- IN crib
2:03p – asleep
3:37p – awake!
3:50p – snack
5:10p – bath
5:30p – final feed
5:45p – asleep

Then today - awake at 4:35am!

I am also thinking she needs more A time, not less, and I need things to tire her out more. She is not crawling yet, so I am not sure how to make her more active.

THANK U!

[stagemanager2]

ok... it looks like you might want to get her to bed later like you've planned... I like the idea of waking her and changing her diaper in a low light room and a bit of food.  It might be enough to get her awake enough to be sleepy enough to sleep in... wow... that was a mouthful! lol

If you're looking for more activities there are lots you can do- I always thought we had nothing to do until I started going to this exercise class with ds and we were taught some great excersising routines... I'd check online to see if you can find either a class or perhaps some routines you can try!  We love it and it's really helping stan get strong like bull! lol

[momofclaire]

There is a bit of a pattern here...maybe she really is hungry. It seems that you feed her and then she goes back to sleep. There are babies that simply can't go 12 hours without eating, and that is fine.  I know several moms here on the site that didn't drop the "night feed" until well after 6 months.  What do you think would have happened if you fed her at 4:50 when she woke friday morning and at 4:20 on Saturday morning?  If she would go back to sleep for even an hour or a little more then your morning start time would be later.  Are you willing to try that?  It just seems that she is napping fine so overtired isn't it and she doesn't wake at the same exact time every morning so it isn't habit. I think she might just be hungry. 
Thoughts?

I think stretching her A time slightly and going to just 2 good naps would be fine. If you happen to have a bad nap day then throw in a catnap here and there until she is used to the 2 naps.
Hugs.  I know how depressing it can be to feel like your marriage is on the back burner.  Do you have family or a friend who could keep her for a couple hours on the weekend so you and your dh could go grab a coffee or something together?

[G and G]

Hi theree, and thanks so much for responding.
I don't think she is hungry because she would not go into babble mode at all if it was hunger. I did feed her in the early am and she used to go back to sleep, and not anymore! I have noticed that in the morning she will not eat all that much anymore. BUT I am certainly willing to try it again!

I also know that she will no longer take 3 naps a day - even if she wakes from her second one at 1:30pm, and even if both of her naps were short, she will no longer take a 3rd nap at all! So 1:30 - 5:30 is a long time, and even so, she will sleep through the night, but not longer than 11 hours - does not matter that she needs to make up time from a nap or not!
She is SLEEPLESS and now so am I.

I would love to do something with my hubby, but anytime we have time, I want to sleep.  My LO has the stamina of an Olympic Gold Medalist, and I have the stamina of a sloth!
She has been babbling for over 40 minutes for her third nap, shows no signs of going to sleep -even though she only took 2 short naps, has been up since 4:30am. I don't get it. She HAS to be tired? Maybe she just isn't? She is not acting OT at all. But I need to do something. My life is a complete mess. I have not even finished my taxes yet! I can't go on with this lifestyle anymore!

And now I have to get ready for work tonight. Sigh......

[stagemanager2]

oh hug hun... I know it seems like there is no light at the end of the tunnel but there always is... remember that your lo will always change and even if you are having bad mornings right now it will change... and something else will need focusing on..

I do agree with pp about trying to get a sitter so you and dh can enjoy each other's company... It really is needed when you feel the way you do...

hugs again... you are doing wonderfully, always remember that.  You listen to your daughter and know her better then anyone.  She will always love you and I'm sure your dh would completely agree when I say you are a great mom!

If you can't get out with your dh you could write him a lovely note- or naughty one... that was one of the things dh and I did when ds was very young and we had almost opposite schedules...  what do ya think? Corny or what? lol

[momofclaire]

If you are sure she isn't hungry then don't feed her.  At this point I am a little stumped.  I would work on trying to get her to go to bed a little later so that her 11 hours ends a little later. 

[G and G]

Well - last night she was up for FIVE hours before bedtime! She just was not tired and would not take that catnap.
She went to bed around 5:45pm and woke at 4:45am - 11 hours on the nose!
My DH went in and fed her after 15 minutes of her calling us - just 4 ounces. She did not go back to sleep, but it calmed her down enough that she just babbled. I went in and got her at 6am.
I'm stuck with an early riser until she can go to bed later I think!
Until she can go to bed at 7pm - am I doomed?
Not sure if she was hungry this morning or just done sleeping, but my DH thinks both.
I am going to work on spacing out her naps more so we can have a later bedtime, but then again my LO will do what she wants to do.
I am stumped too, but determined to sleep past 5am!
Thanks SO much to both of you for your help.

[momofclaire]

You are not doomed.  I rememeber feeling like you are around 6-7 months.  I don't know how many times I called my mom crying. Seriously.  Our problems were bad naps.  I would slowly try to extend A times during the day so that bedtime ends up later.  Do you attempt to rest or nap when she takes a nap?  I know it is hard because there are so many other things to do but once in a while things can wait so that you can get some extra rest.
Hang in there. 

[G and G]

Thanks. I do try and rest, but today was another bad nap day, so not enough time to get in a nap myself! Most days I really do try and nap. My parents will be in town this weekend, so that will be a help.
She was in short nap mode today - first nap was an hour, and I think it was cut short due to the fact that I live in the noisiest neighborhood on the planet! Tuesdays can be tough - garbage day, recycling day, and my neighbor mows his lawn every Tues. All 3 at the same time can wake the dead! You can hear it over the white noise I have going in her room.
I actually let her take one nap in the car - she had a checkup today, and she fell asleep in the car, so I drove around for while and let her sleep.
She went to bed tonight at 6:30pm, so hopefully she'll wake after 5am in the morning!
I honestly think she just needs less sleep than most babies. 11 hours is it at night, and she'll take long naps if she needs them, and short ones if that's all she needs - much to my dismay. Sometimes she does get cranky from short naps, but a lot of times she is just fine. She doesn't cry so I cannot use Pu/Pd to put her to sleep. I even tried it today after a short nap, and she did cry, but she was just not tired!
The early mornings are killing me so I hope this phase passes fast!

[G and G]

Well, the last 2 mornings she has slept in past 6:00am, but that is because she woke at 3am to be fed.

I have a couple of questions about that -

~ at what age is it ok to teach your baby that the kitchen is closed at night!? She is 7 months.

~ she woke at 3:15am both nights, if she does it again tonight, then the following night, can I do a W2S? Go in a 3:00am and try to start a new sleep cycle? Or will she just wake later for food?

~ she babbles at 3:15am - but the babbling is more like calling me, not playing. some cries will be mixed in here and there, but it is not full out crying. After 30 minutes I went in and fed her. Should I let her go longer?

Yesterday she napped like a champ - she even fell asleep on me once which I LOVED, and she has not done that in months. I have no idea why she napped yesterday.
I feel like a bad mom sometimes. We get so many short naps because she is either OT or UT - I just can't seem to get her cues right. But there are those times she naps and naps - like yesterday, so it might just be that 45 min naps are all she needs sometimes?
AND two days ago she as able to stay up almost 4 hours in the am - even though she was up before 5am, but yesterday she could hardly make it to two hours. How can I mom figure out naps with that?

Sigh...... but she is SO cute!