couple questions

[Kimberly®]

So I started doing a bf before bottle each feed except at night. I tried but at night she just wont take it. Thats fine by me anyway as we want to do bottle at night. I also started takeing fenugreek.

I noticed yesterday that after a bf she ate only 2oz rather then 4oz so I am hoping that means she's getting milk.

How long untill I really notice a difference with the feeds? When do I know I can stop the bottle altogether?

Also I notice this AM that her poop is runnier, the only difference is that she's getting bm and formula rather then just formula. Is this normal?

[Mum of 3 + 2 stepkids]

Hi Kimberly, You must have been working hard for your lo to go from 4 -2 oz thats great news

Bf babies do have runny poo and sometimes with seeds.

I would say lo is getting enough when she pokes out the boob, or till she refuses the bottle.

Keep going your doing fab

Kate x

[Kimberly®]

Thanks

[daybyday]

yup! Well done!

[binxyboo]

How are things going?

[Kimberly®]

Not really sure. I am so confused. I am meeting with a LC tomorrow.

She stopped latching on all together yesterday. Cried up a storm everytime I tried. I think she's in a growth spurt though as she's also been eating more often and more in general.

Today I tried giving her the bottle first then pooping her on. It worked, but she only stayed on the one side for about 15 min and wouldn't go on the other She drank 3.5oz total from the bottle.

Half her bottles are EBM now as I have been pumping after every feed.

I started taking the fenugreek but had to stop as I have since found out I have an allergy to it I think DD has a sensitivity too as she was especially grumpy while I took it.

She's been extra grumpy and restless for 3 days now. Not sure whats up with that.

[Hunter & Sithia's mom]

Kim was thinking today about this, and Karrigan refusing the breast ... could the fenugreek have changed the taste of your bm and perhaps THAT is why she refused the breast the other day?  With giving her the ebm, that would have gotten her used to the taste of it again.  I'd keep trying to pop her on the breast like you have been, and see how it goes.  Let me know how the consult with the LC goes?

HTH
Hugs
B

[binxyboo]

What kind of allergic symptoms are you having?
Fenugreek can make you gassy. It can also cause gassiness in your child, although this is not too common. If you feel you need something to boost your supply, try oatmeal, domperidone etc.
I had some initial positioning issues with Kate as she had a broken clavicle, these vidoes really helped me.
http://www.gentlemothering.ca/DRNewmanVideos.html
Let us know how you get on tomorrow.

I also saw that you mentioned you are doing bottles at night. Prolactin levels peak at night and those night feeds are crucial in establishing your supply. When Kate started sleeping long stretches, I would get up to pump. You should highly consider doing that for the next while if fiddling with the latch at 3 am is too much. If you end up getting a good latch, you could also consider supplementing at the breast using a SNS until your supply meets her needs.

[Kimberly®]

Whats an SNS? and how does it work? I've heard it mentioned but I have no idea what it is.

I have been up pumping at night the last few days. Mostly because if I don't it gets really painful from the engorgment. She wont latch at all at night. I figure we'll see about getting the days figured out first.

I picked up a couple Dr.Brown bottles, because they have a much slower flow then my normal bottles. I'm hoping that might help too.

The symptoms I had from the fenugreek was severe cramping, so bad I couldn't even move, hives and severe nausea. DD was super gassy and restless. She's still a lot more fussy then she was last week. Not sure if its related to my bfing her or not.

Beth you have a good point. I never thought of that. Its deffinitly something to look into.

I'll call you tonight and let you know how the meeting goes with the LC. She's going to do a private consult with me and try some different tricks to see if we can get DD back on.

I've been to kellymom to try and get some help too. Its been ok, but they've kind of shot down by parenting style (the BW) I didn't relise they were so against it and inadvertently answered a couple questions to other mom's with info from the book  I was put in my place after that, but its made me not really want to go back. I don't exactly feel welcome there. Which is to bad, they have some great info.

[binxyboo]

I didn't realise there was a chat on Kellymom. Could you link me to that forum if you have a spare moment, I would love to see what it's like. Regardless of whether or not you agree with everything on there, it is one of the best places to go for bf advice. At this stage, if getting her to feed is important to you, you just have to push past what you don't like about the place and take advice that works. It's like anything else.

SNS: http://www.kellymom.com/newman/05lactation_aid.html
Basically a tube taped to the breast so that baby receives all supplements at the breast, helping baby to understand the breast is where we feed.
There is a video clip at the end of the other link I posted last night about using it appropriately.

Hang in there. I had difficulites starting with both my children, but it can definitely be done and is so rewarding. Hope your LC meeting goes well today.

[LORRIEc]

Hi Kimberly.  I'm sending you some hugs.  Hopefully things get better for you.  What made you try to BF again?? Just curious.
I hope the LC can help you out.  I know how frustrating it is trying to BF and to have difficulties.  Domperidone didn't help me, but I know that it has helped a lot of people and would definitely be worth talking to the LC about.   That is so unfortunate that people who are supposed to be helping have acted in ways that make you not want to see them again.  I hope you are able to get some proper help somewhere.

[binxyboo]

Domperidone will work well for most people. However, the most important thing is teaching the baby how to empty the breast effectively. Otherwise taking those meds will all be in vain.

[Kimberly®]

Thats the part I have trouble with. When she does take to the breast she'll drink well for 5-10 min, then she falls asleep and I'm not really sure how much she's taking in at that point. Its really hard to tell.

For one day she did 4 feedings on the breast alone and was content, then she refused it after that.

Lorrie I desided to try again because I wanted to, not because everyone else wanted me too. Made it feel like there was less pressure. I've come to enjoy it when I can get her on. So I'm hoping to keep it going.

Michelle I'm going to look around and see if I can fine Domperidone, it took a long time to find the fenugreek, I couldn't find it at all last time.

If you go to kellymom.com and go to message boards you can find the chat. Its ok now that I know not to mention BW at all, it just feels weird kwim? I mean BW has been a part of my life for 3 years, its really all I know. It feels weird to be told its cruel and unproductive for bfing. I've had to swallow my pride a bit in a way I suppose. I need and want the help and I am getting that at least, but I don't want to go down the AP road either. I am trying to find the right balence for me kwim? I heard a lot of good recomendations for the sight for bfing advice and thats why I went there. I'm remaining opened minded, after all I know nothing when it comes to bfing.

[binxyboo]

BBL, have to go feed Kate and do some work.

I am sure you will get all the help you need on here anyway, Kimberly. I'll be back in a bit to offer any help and support I can. I do have a few ideas for you xx

[binxyboo]

Okay, a few minutes...

First re: domperidone. It is available on prescription where you live, I believe.
I don't really think you need to take it, because you mention being engorged etc. It seems like you have milk in there, what we need to work on is getting that milk into Karrigan's tummy directly from your breast.
You say she is feeding for 5-10 mins. Great start. Is it active feeding like in the vidoe clips I posted? Because sometimes babies will hang out at the breast and not actually feed. You need to watch the clips to know what to look for. Good active swallows etc.
It can be hard to know what they are taking in, that's for sure. But bf is different...you don't count what goes in, you count what comes out. You are looking for 5-6 good wet diapers (disposable ones). It should be as wet as if you poured 3 tablespoons of water into it, that's how heavy it should feel. And then about 3 poopies.

What I would do, is just take a day, put her directly on your breast as often as she is cueing, drop the supplements. Of course, you need to ensure you have a good latch, hopefully your lc will help you with that IRL. Feed feed feed, take a look at your diaper count and see where you stand. It is possible she may need supplements for awhile, but this is a good way to get a baseline and see where you are at with it.

I just want to say quickly, as I hear Kate stirring, that I commend you for trying this when it didn't work out last time. Like I said, I had multiple issues starting off with Kate that I didn't expect after nursing Riley for over a year. It was so hard to keep going some days with pumping, trying to latch a crying baby etc etc all with a toddler running around. I drew on my experience with Riley to keep me going, I can imagine it's all the more difficult for you as you didn't have that positive experience first time round.

These next few days and early weeks may be a trial, I think it is for most with nursing even if you are not having major issues. But chin up and plod ahead. We are with you every step of the way!