Could our EASY routine be easier? (3 wk old)

[Priscillapresley]

Our DS (Number 2) is 3 weeks old and has been on EASY since day 1. So far he seems a very easy nature and seems to be textbook. He had no problems after being born. My other DS is 19 months old and was a textbook baby and did very well on EASY and was sleeping through at 1 month. He has so far been very good with his brother. I would be very grateful for advice on what we're doing - is there anything we could be doing to extend his periods of nighttime sleep?

DS is breast fed and this has been going well (better than last time, when I found it v hard to express). He empties both breasts at each daytime feed and is gaining weight and doing lovely yellow nappies. We were not rigid about feed times initially and he seemed to put himself on a 3 hour EASY. He seems an efficient feeder and clears each breast in 10-15 minutes. He is good at shifting wind. Takes alot of effort to stop him falling asleep on the breast but we usually manage ok. I have started expressing with a manual pump and it takes about 10 minutes to fill a 4 oz bottle. He has had a couple of bottles of expressed milk given by my husband in he past week and has been ok with the teat.

He takes naps without problem and is usually asleep 15 minutes from being put down, except the last one of the day when his brother is much more noisy. We swaddle him. He has been in his own room and his own cot for the past fortnight - we did this with his brother and it suits us all.

Night times were going well in week 1 and 2 and he was able to manage 4 or 5 hours between feeds. Now he wakes up every 2 or 3 hours and takes full feeds. I have increased his daily awake intake over the past 3 days by offering both breasts instead of one. Can we improve what we're doing?

Our routine is

E 6-7am Both breasts - total feeding takes 25-30 minutes
A Dressed & Nappy change
S 8.15 - 10 am
Y

E 10am Both breasts
A Take clothes off to stay awake and change nappy
S 11-1pm
Y

E 1pm Both breasts
A Nappy change when wakes up and after feed
S 2-3pm
Y

E 3pm Both breasts
A Nappy changes
S 3.50-5pm (his brother comes home about 4pm and is noisy!)
Y

Bedtime - no strict rituals yet. Has top and tail and change of clothes and is taken to own room and own cot with very low lighting and has his last feed while awake. Usually down in cot about 5.30 (his brother has his bath at 5.30 and is in bed from 6)

E 5pm Both breasts
A Sleepsuit on, quick top and tail & Nappy change
S 5.30pm onwards
Y

E 7pm Both breasts - usually asleep
A None
S
Y

E 9pm Both breasts - usually asleep
A None
S
Y

Dream feed between 11 and 12 - sometimes wakes while I'm giving it then usually falls asleep again but may cry for half an hour if he does wake

Another feed anytime between 0200 and 0500

Any advice you can give on how we get him to sleep for longer than 3 hours at a time would be great though maybe we just need to get on with it!!!! Would a 2.5 hr cycle make any difference?

Thanks for taking the time to read this
Cilla

[Priscillapresley]

I know it might seem like we've nothing to be worrying about but I really could use advice - things have been really hard for us since our son was born. I dislocated my hip and cant walk, get dressed, or do anything for myself and the boys except make milk, so my husband is doing everything (for me and the boys). I dont know how he keeps going but he could really use a couple hours more sleep. It would also save me feeling a total burden.
Please help
Cilla

[Lex444]

Sorry to hear about the hip, Cilla, it sounds really difficult, but honestly, it sounds like he's doing brilliantly for a three-week old! I'd give him ten gold stars. Note that I'm no expert, but it sounds like it's working wonderfully despite your qualms and poor hip.

One question though, I'm confused about your night-times. He does a dreamfeed at elevenish, right? Is he then up again at 3am and 7am? Or do you get a stretch from elevenish to seven am? (If he does that, well. Well. My 14-week-old still doesn't do that.... and note that at three weeks, my baby was waking for feeds at 1am and 4am, and THEN having tummy pains from gas from 4am through to 7am along with screaming....)

I think it's really normal for tiny tiny babies to sleep for longer stretches in the first two weeks and then, as they get a little bit older, to start waking to feed more regularly. In the first two weeks, they're really recovering from the trauma of being born.

And also, when is he crying for half an hour?

[Priscillapresley]

Hi Lex
Thanks so much for taking the time to read my post and also for replying! Also thanks for your good wishes.

To answer your questions,

The crying for half an hour is unpredictable and may or may not happen after his dreamfeed - we think its if he has wind or a very heavy nappy (he hates getting changed through the night - we avoid it as much as we can as it seems to really stimulate him)

No the dreamfeed doesnt give him a stretch until morning - wouldnt that be great?!!! During the night, from his dreamfeed, he is still waking every 2.5-3 hours for food. You could set your clock by him! I guess I wondered if this is OK and if there is anything extra we can do to extend the time between feeds during the night? Even an extra hour would make a big difference to us with our current circumstances. I wonder when we might start to expect these periods to increase?

Thanks again for taking the time to reply to us
Cilla

[Lex444]

Hey Cilla, you're welcome.
I'm no expert, but from my personal experience I think what's happening is completely OK and normal. It might be hard to deal with considering the hip, which is a real bummer, but it's totally normal.

I noticed it started stretching out after a few weeks for us to a reliable 3 hours at night, which is still really tiring. We went 7am, 10am, 1pm, 4pm, 7pm, 10pm 1am, 4am, 7am until about six weeks. Then, he dropped the 1am feed. Although my ds is 14 weeks old, we STILL have the 4am feed in place.

There might be someone who has other ideas about what to do to stretch, but I certainly coulndn't make anything work!

[chrissie1982]

Hi Cilla,
I haven't really got any advice about extending his night time sleep but I just wanted to reasure you that this all sounds completely normal. My ds was waking every 3hrs during the night for a feed until he was about 8 weeks (sorry, I know that's not what you wanted to hear but my ds always has been a very hungry baby - he still is now at 10 months!). He will gradually start to go a bit longer between night feeds when his little tummy has expanded a bit and he can take bigger amounts of milk. Maybe some other ladies will have advice about how to get him to sleep longer stretches.

Lots of hugs to you and your DH (he sounds like an absolute saint!) and I hope things start to get a bit easier for you soon.
Chrissie x

[Priscillapresley]

Thanks for replying Chrissie. We tried leaving him to sleep in the evening rather than give him 2 feeds while he's asleep - he slept 5pm-11pm then woke up ravenous and drank so quickly he had shocking wind! He did go down after about an hour of upset. I guess I feel a bit lost about when to feed in evenings. We will probably compromise and give one feed while asleep before the official dream feed and see how that goes. I appreciate your words of reassurance. Even though DS Number 1 is only 19 months old, I seem to have forgotten what these early days were like! I know DS 1 slept though at a very early age (did his 1st 12am-6am at day 6!) but he was much harder to judge naps than this little one. Its a lot of trial and error at this stage, I know - the wee one is thriving and his big brother is being very sweet with him. So we are happy. Just tired! Dh especially! I know I am taking far more looking after than both boys put together!
Thanks again for your support. If anyone does have any suggestions for how to extend the time between night time feeds, we would be soooooo grateful!
Love Cilla

[Angela and Victoria]

Hi..

Just a thought. What if you try to feed him a bit longer than 30 min? try to give him 20-25 min on one breast and then 20 min on the other (during the day). Make sure that the first breast takes longer than the second. Also make sure that he does not fall asleep at your breast.

The idea is to help him get more hind milk into his belly than fore milk, as the hind milk is the fatty one that can help him go longer. If you can't do this for the feds during the day, try to do it for the last fed before the night.

Dreamfeed:
For now this does not work at all for me and my Lo, as she does not take enough milk and she ends up waking up way too early. Because of that i don't do a dreamfeed. Instead i fully wake her up at 11 and i give her one breast with the lights on, and the second one with the dimmed lights or almost in the dark. Then i put her to sleep and she can do a stretch of 4.5-5hours (which is a WOW for me:-) ).

I hope this helps.
Cheers


I hope it helps
Cheers

[Priscillapresley]

Thanks Ang
That's a good idea - my l.o is a nightmare to keep awake at the breast! We try cold wet flannels, foot rubs, fingers down his back, bright lights - I never had this problem with his brother! I do appreciate you taking the time to give me your thoughts and we'll certainly let you know how it goes. Just thought - maybe last week was a growth spurt?? Can't believe he'll be 4 weeks old in a couple of days!
Thanks again - this site is always such a good support. Me and dh appreciate it v much.
Cilla

[Angela and Victoria]

Cilla,

what i read in an interview with Tracy was that if the baby usually falls asleep at the breast,it helps if you do the following:
The moment he is getting drowsy (don't let him get asleep) take him away from the breast and hold him in front of you in a vertical position. this should wake him up. Once he is awake, put him back to the breast. Repeat the procedure when he gets drowsy again.

I did not try it with my baby, as she only falls asleep at my breast during the nigh feds ( and then i do not want to wake her up- and put her directly in her bed). I hope this can help you:-)

Lots of luck

[Angela and Victoria]

Something i forgot to say.

As i explained instead of the dreamfeed i wake her up.
I do this at 11PM. After feeding the first breast having the full lights on, i change her diaper (to make sure she is awake again), then swaddle her and put her back at the  second breast in dim lights. She tends to almost fall asleep whne she finishes the second breast and it is very easy to put her back in her bed and go back to sleep.

I'll go myself to sleep now. In Brussels it is past 10AM, and i need to wake up in less than 1h to feed her. Read you tomorrow.
Angela