PU/PD So confused - how, when etc HELP PLEASE!

[Anja30]

Hi everyone

First of all, many apologies if my profile is looking a bit bare but I've never used a forum before and haven't managed to read through the help guide yet to get me started. Anyway, like so many of you, I'm feeling quite desperate, as not sure whether what I am doing is right. To simplify all the issues I'm having, I'll just list them below and would be sooooooooooooooo grateful for any advice. So far, I've read through most of the 1st 3 pages on mssgs for PU/PD but feel I haven't quite got the right answer yet including the topic on when not to do PU/PD. SO SORRY for the long garbled message but I have sooo many questions and don’t know where to start.

1.Main issue is Naps – they’re too short – between 30 and 45 mins. They’ve always been like this but he does not cry when he wakes just lies there wide awake, alert and smiling when I come in.

Questions
-   Is he too young? He’s 2 and a half months old. Tracy does say one can start after 3 months!
I’ve attempted PU/PD for two days now and have not got very far – have tried up until next feed but not got him to sleep yet. I go into his room at 30 mins, wait till he stirs and once he starts to wake I try to soothe with soft words and put my tummy on his belly, which is what I do to get him to sleep. However this seems to have the opposite effect, he starts to smile and really wakes. In fact, there is hardly ever a time when he wakes and is crying. He always seems to be wide awake and happy and sometimes can be lying in his cot for 10 mins gurgling away happily before calling out for me.

Then I turn him on his side and start shush pat but this makes him start to cry, the more I do it the more he cries. I lean into his ear, make long shush sounds and do a rhythmic pat pat on his back. I’ve tried it on his belly and leg but this just wakes him even more. So if he doesn’t stop, I pick him up and calm him and then put him down again – as soon as I put him down he starts to cry and I do it again. I only hold him till he calms down and then put him down. The more I did it the more hysterical he became to the point where he could hardly catch his breath and was screaming. May be he is still too young - finding shush/pat and PU/PD too stimulating. May be he is not tired enough for me to try the technique and just gets more upset or is this the goal? Is this a method that only works the more upset they get so that they tire themselves out and sleep….is this not quite cruel? Should PU/PD only be used if he cries when he wakes as I seem to be making a happy baby into a very unhappy one?

If he is too young? What do I do instead?
I really want to extend his naps and frequently he falls asleep whilst feeding. I have never used the breast to make him fall asleep and when he shows signs of just suckling I take him off and try to wake him. So what do I do? Just carry on with 45 min naps till he’s 4 months and try again then with PU/PD or do I just try to stick to shush pat and just wait in his room till next feed. Can this technique alone work or should I do PU/PD if he cries non stop? Should I try wake to sleep for naps? Can this work too?

-   Should I wean him off his dummy first before attempting PU/PD or go cold turkey?
Although according to Tracy he is not dependent on the dummy as he spits it our once he’s fallen asleep and doesn’t need it again after that but he does need it to wind down before sleep time. I often take it away before he falls asleep and he doesn’t need it again. The dummy calms him very quickly if I use it during PU/PD but I know one shouldn’t use props for it to work? IS it really a case of sticking to it without a dummy even though they get REALLY upset or do I wean him off slowly first before attempting PU/PD?

As he is close to 4 months soon. Do I also attempt to stretch him to feeding every 4 hours as well as lengthening naps at the same time. Quite a lot to go from 45 mins to 2 hours.! Or should I just start with aiming for an hr and a half and then at 4 months do PU/PD again to stretch him to 2 hrs?

[Peek-a-boo]

Hi there!  Welcome to the Babywhisperer forums! 

The short answer to your questions is that your LO is too young to start pu/pd.  Three months is the absolute youngest age at which Tracy recommended using pu/pd, and often it's better to wait until four months.

So, what to do in the meantime . . .
Here's a link to an FAQ about the age range for pu/pd that contains within it some links to more FAQs about how to sleep train an infant younger than 3-4 months. https://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=121330.0  The main methods are shush-pat and, if you need to get rid of a prop, gradual removal. 

You might also try wake-to-sleep which is described here:  https://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=121269.0

Is your LO sleeping well at night?  If so, you may just want to roll with the short naps for now and work on them more specifically if it seems like they are causing a problem.  Some LOs are just biologically short nappers and, since your LO wakes happy from his short naps, this may be the case for him. 

Finally, sometimes a short nap is a sign that LO needs either more or less A time in his routine--that he's not tired enough to sleep through a full nap or that he's so tried he's hopped up on adrenaline and can't stay asleep.  Overtirede babies tend to wake upset.  He's probably too young to move to a four hour routine, but you could try adding 5-10 minutes to his normal amount of A time every 3 days or so for a bit and see if increasing A time just a bit causes him to be tired enough to nap longer.

Okay, that's a lot of options, I know, so I hope not too overwhelming.  If you post what your LOs typical EASY looks like, others wiser than I am at dealing with this age may be able to chime in as well with ideas for how to tweak to get longer naps. 

[marensmama]

Hi and welcome to the BW community!  Bethany gave you all sorts of great advice, I just wanted to reiterate that 2.5 months is too young for PU/PD, their poor little bodies get too exhausted by the work of being picked up and put down and the crying that can ensue.  Short naps are tough!  The best thing you can do is swaddle him and use pat/shh or a modified version (my LO had reflux and is a touchy/spirited girl, so she didn't like the patting, I just kept my hand on her chest while I shh'd and that worked like a charm).  Also, you can do w2s for naps, at his age it might be pressure at the jolts that helps best, it's the sort of thing you'll have to experiment with.  There's a great w2s section in our FAQ that you can check out.

HTH!

[Anja30]

Hello
Thank you so much Bethany and Nicole for both your emails. It's great having support like this - am so glad I joined the forum. You'll think I'm probably very strange but I must have so called 'placenta brain'. My little son Noah is actually 3 and a half months old - I don't know what I was thinking when I typed 2 and a half months! I even re-read the mssg double checking. So sorry.
In reply to your email Bethany, thanks so much for the links, I'll look at them and see if i can find anything helpful. Having thought a lot about it today, my gut feeling is telling me to try other approaches first before PU/PD, it just doesn't feel right. He is definitely a spirited baby and think finds PU/PD too stimulating but also like you mentioned I think he is often quite happy with short naps and may be this is his natural bio-rhythm. Somewhere I read that these cat nappers just need to be managed a little differently and rather than following the 3 hour EASY strictly, put him to bed at signs of tiredness - even if this means having a few more catnaps during the day and/or napping soon after a feed. So I've decided that if he wakes happy and gurgling, I'll get him up and if he wakes upset, try shush shush but lay hand on tummy as this often works with him. I will try to lengthen his A team and see what happens as soon he'll be 4 months and hopefully making that transition. Nearly forgot to say that he does sleep well at night, his bedtime is around 7pm, I wake him for dream feed at 10.30/11pm and then he normally sleeps through till 4.30/5am when I feed him, then back to bed till 7/7.30am. He goes to sleep straight away by himself without dummy. In the day, I aim for the 3 hour routine if I can but think based on what I said above, I'll be tweaking this slightly with the naps.
Hi Nicole, will also try the WTS method as this seems a far gentler approach but I know it doesn't work with all babies. I did actually attempt it once today - he went back to sleep for 5 mins - went in at 30 mins and rubbed his belly but them woke just before 40 mins. But I think I need to try quite few times and may be sometimes he'll sleep longer when he needs to and other times just be awake if he's not tired. I think I got so frustrated by trying to follow the routine and forgetting that may be I do just need to go with LO a bit more but stick to 7am wake and 7pm sleep.

Thanks so much for your advice. Really great. Will let you know what happens.

: -)

[Peek-a-boo]

I think it's a great idea to start with something other than pu/pd--it is a last resort and definitely be stimulating for spirited types.