14.5 mo sleep problems - help

[meri anne]

Hi everyone,
My 14.5 mo dd is on easy since she is 5 mo. She used to have 2 good naps, went to bed at 7.30-8.00 and wake up at 7.00. Two months ago, she started to wake up earlier, at 6.30 then at 6.00 or 5.40. Sometimes she refused the pm nap, sometimes she had the am nap too late for an am nap. From what I have read on the BW boards, I decided that it was time for her to move to 1 nap. (By the way, I am a working mom, I leave home at 8.00, I return at 18.15, my mother is taking care of dd during the day). So, my mom and I made a plan, we pushed the am nap 15 min every 3 days. In a month or so, she had one nap of 2 or 2.5 h at 12.30. The early waking continued, sometimes I was successful with W2S (slept until 7.30) but generally she woke up at 6.30. She went to bed at 7.30.
The last two weeks were a nightmare. Because dd seemed to be tired, my mom reintroduced am naps, generally from 10.00 to 12.00. DD started to refuse the pm naps completely, or fall asleep at 16.30 or so until 17.30. This very late nap destroyed the bed time, no sleep until 9.30 or so. Eventually, she gets very overtired and this morning she woke up at 5.30.
On top of this sleep problems, my mom could no longer care for dd so she has to go to daycare. They told me that they have 2 naps for babies, at 10.00 and at 14.00. They also say that dd will be more tired at daycare then at home, so she will have 2 naps without problem. But I doubt it. DD can handle long A times in my experience (from the days we had 1 nap, she had 5 or 5.5 h of A times). But I also agree that she will get more tired with all the other babies (they will be 5 ). I really would like her to have two naps, but I fear that she will refuse the second nap at 14.00 and be very OT at 18.00 when I will pick her up.
I am sorry that it took so long, but I really need your advice. Should I tell the daycare to put her for one nap at 12.00-12.30 and introduce early bedtime at 6.30 (the earliest possible because we will be back at home at 6.15) or should they try 2 naps? Or any other solution that will work?
I am really confused, please please please help!
Thanks

[Layla]

Hello & welcome to the BW ,

You have a few options...
1. keep the 2 naps BUT tell them to wake her 45mins into the morning nap so thet she is tired enough for an afternoon nap. If she's sleeping 2hrs in the morning, she is more than likely refuse her pm nap or the pm nap will be too late into the afternoon, which in turn affects bedtime (as you have noticed)

2. stick to 1 nap but definitely bring bedtime forward. So if she's taking a nap from 12-2, put her down for the night around 6.30-7pm at the very latest

3. the other option is to let her sleep long morning nap and offer a pm catnap. So if she does fall asleep as late as say 4pm, wake her up 30mins into the nap to protect bedtime. With us, this option didn't work because 99.9% of the time, my dd wouldn't fall asleep for her afternoon nap AT ALL and in that case I used to do a super early bedtime (like 5-5.30pm!)

Also during this transition, watching cues is important. She might be good on 1 nap for a few days and then she might need a catch up 2 nap days. So if at daycare they see that she won't sleep for her morning nap, ask them to put her down for 1 nap around 11.30am or so.

hth a little
Layla

[meri anne]

Layla,
Thanks for your reply. I will try the first option because I think that she will need 2 naps at daycare.
Last night she had some fever, it turned out that she has an ear infection. DD didn't sleep well last night, so today we have no routine at all. I will try 2 naps tomorrow or Sunday, and Monday is our first full day at daycare. I will keep the results posted.

[403girl]

Yeah I agree with Layla - try shortening the am the nap. Let us know how it goes.

[meri anne]

Hi again,
DD went to daycare yesterday (she had 40 C heat on Sunday, so I kept her home on Monday). Tuesday morning, she woke up at 6.50. She took her first nap at 10.45 for 1 hour, and the second at 16.00 for 45 min at daycare. We came home, eat, did our routine (bath, book, etc). I put her down into the crib at 20.00, she seemed sleeping but woke up after 5 min crying, back to sleep then again crying... until 21.30. I don't know if it's because of ear pain, OT or the first day at daycare. She had her medications at 1.30, but went back to sleep immediately after. This morning wake up time was 6.45. No night wakings, just some crying while sleeping.
What do you think? The second nap seems late and short to me. Should I tell the daycare to put her down earlier (although I seriously doubt she will sleep earlier)? Or should we try 1.5 hours am nap and 45 min pm nap? Should I try earlier bed time?

[Layla]

The 2nd nap does seem a little late. I would try for morning nap around 3.5hrs from the time she wakes... so say 10.30am and wake her 45mins into the nap and try for the afternoon nap about 3.5hrs later...

Something like this:
7am - wake
10.30-11:45 - mornign nap
3-4.30 - afternoon nap
8pm - bedtime

And if this doesn't work then you could try the 1.5hrs morning nap and a short catnap before bedtime.

You mentioned ear pain... could she have an ear infection?

[meri anne]

Yes, she does. We are on medications since Thursday. Also, she had some red spots on her face, according to the doctor this could be a viral infection that ends. The doctor says that she could get sick every 2-3 weeks for the first year at daycare.
She had the first nap at 10.30 for one hour. We had the doctor appointment at 14.00 today. She felt asleep in the car while returning back to the daycare at 14.30. I don't know her wake up time yet.
I will try to implement the 3.5 hours A time. At daycare, they try to follow each baby's own routine. But I guess it will take some time, it is a big change to go to daycare.

[meri anne]

Just a quick update... It seems that a short am nap and a 1.5 h pm nap is not working for us. Even if she sleeps 1 h for her am nap, she refuses the pm nap or is ready at 16.00 or 16.30 which is very late.
This week we will try a long am nap, and a catnap instead of pm nap.

[Layla]

How long is the morning nap? At that age we were on no more than 45mins am nap.... some do 30mins am nap. But if she's fighting it, then try the long am nap & catnap route. That works for some really well. Otherwise if that doesn't work... it may be time to start pushing out the morning nap until its close to midday and in that case she's down to just one nap for the day.

She might still need a 2-day catch up nap every other day.

Good luck & keep us posted

[meri anne]

With 3 diseases in 2 weeks (ear infection, sixth disease and cold + DD is teething) it has been really difficult to stick to a routine. In addition, I cannot be sure if they wake DD after 45 min of am nap at daycare. So we try the long am nap at 10.30 and a catnap at 16.00 or so.
Yesterday she felt better so we did
wake up 6.15
am nap 10.30-1.15
catnap 4.10-4.30
bedtime 7.30
I think we will try this routine for a while and switch to 1 nap when she can handle more A times without being OT.
I don't know if is related to her illness, teething or something else but DD started to wake up at 4.30 (exactly) crying, she stands up in the crib, I put her down and she returns to sleep, then we repeat this cycle for maybe 10 times until 6.30 when she usually refuses to get back to sleep. We never had serious NW before this, I don't feed her at night. I am so confused. This NW is repeating for 4 nights now. Any ideas? Should I try W2S at 4.00?

[Layla]

Its probably a combination of everything thats been going on lately.... you could try w2s and see if it works. But is she up at 4.30am and then you just keep trying pd? Does she end up falling asleep at all? When my dd was teething, we had 5.30am wake ups as well

[meri anne]

She is up at 4.30 (maybe not totally awake but stands up in the crib) then goes back to sleep as I put her down, sleeps for 15-20 min sometimes more, then up again and so on. I will try W2S and post the result tomorrow. Wish me luck...

[Layla]

Good luck!

[meri anne]

Last night DD was up at 1.30.While I was doing wi/pd (and she was crying when put down) DH decided that she was crying too much and took her to our bed. I said no, don't, she'll want the same tomorrow, and other things that I don't remember now. Guess what he said: no problem, I will take care tomorrow,too. I said OK, turned my back and tried to sleep (and sometimes pretended, especially when DD wanted to stand up in bed  ). But, at DH surprise, DD didn't want to sleep. After two hours of shhh, pat, hug, etc. she was still awake and DH started to say "honey, why are you not sleeping". Then, finally, DH decided that he was wrong. So I put her down in her crib, wi/pd two times and she was asleep... We all missed 2 hours of sleep  But I have to admit that DH solved the 4.30 wake up problem. Down at 3.30, DD slept until 7.30 this morning. I expect DD to wake up tonight too. But I know that DH will not even think about intervening to wi/pd 
I wanted that they keep a log of DD naps for 2 weeks at daycare. Maybe the naps have something to do with NW. We will see...

[meri anne]

At least I know that our NW problem is not fixed at 4.30. Last night it was 3.30 and the night before 1.30... W2S will not be of any help.
DD sleeps form 12.15 to 2.15 or 2.30 at daycare, they said. Maybe it's OT? I suggested that they put her down for a catnap of 30 m either for am or pm nap. So it will be either 10.00-10.30 am nap and 1.30-3.30 pm nap or 10.30-12.30 am nap and 4.30-5.00 catnap (because of the NW, she is not waking up until 7.15, which is good for her to catch up the missed sleep I guess).
I hope they can, because DD gets tired at dinner ( there is a road construction at our way back home and because of the traffic , we cannot be at home until 7.00  Preparing dinner, eating, doing our routine... we have bed time at 8.00 which is late I think, but will be this way for a month or so until the construction is complete  )
DD is teething too, so I really don't know the reason of our NW. What do you think? Is it a stage? Should I wait and do nothing?
It is not so bad for now, all I do is to put her down when she wakes up (several times for several hours, but just put her back down). She generally goes back to sleep in 15 min. Will this be worse if I don't do anything now? Any suggestions?