16 mo awake for several hours every other night - any ideas?

[Bryony]

We have something really wierd going on here, and I wondered if anyone has any ideas.

Every alternate night, Katie wakes up around 11-12 pm, wailing, and won't go back to sleep for 2-3hrs.  It's only every other night, but it's exactly the same pattern each time.

Our routine:

7am get up and BF (but losing interest - suspect she may wean herself soon)
8:30am breakfast
11:30am snack / half of lunch
12 or 12:15 - nap - usually sleeps around 2hrs. If she's still asleep after 2hrs 15 mins I wake her
2:30pm - second half of lunch
5:30pm - tea
then bedtime routine, aiming to have her in bed 5hrs after she woke from her nap

On the day after a bad night, I put her down for her nap 15 mins earlier than usual and the whole day moves a bit earlier.

The night wakings are odd - they seem to be like OT  but this wouldn't explain why it's only every other night. Also she's fine and happy in the day, shows no other signs of OT and is napping well.

It starts off with her wailinng (a bit mantra-ish), which quickly progresses to being very upset and crying hard. I go in and she stops, so I soothe her in the cot which works fine initially. She then fidgets around for half an hour or so with me there, then gets frustrated with being in her cot but not being asleep and starts crying again. I give her the muslin (her lovies) she throws it across the room. I pick her up and hold her till she's calm, then put her down again, at which point she starts screaming and holding onto me for dear life. So I pick her up again, repeat. reapeat for 2-3hrs until she finally decides she's going back to sleep, puts her muslin over her face and goes to sleep.

She's fine going to bed and sleeping independently for naps and bedtime, and at other times I hear her wake up in the night, chat to herself and go back to sleep - so she can do this too, but just not at this 11pm waking.

After one of these nights we typically get an EW too so she's only had about 8-10 hrs of night time sleep. The next night she will sleep for 12hrs straight.

I am really at a loss as to (1) what's causing this, (2) what might need a tweak, and (3) how to get her back to sleep when she does wake, without any major AP.

My work is really intense at the moment and the lack of sleep is absolutely killing me! We have had NW for one reason or another (OT, colds, teeth, milestones) since Katie was 1 year old - and 4 months of sleep deprivation is really starting to get to me.

She changed to one nap at around 13 months and we had problems with NW and EW for a while afterwards as she was OT, but I really think we should be over that by now!

Any ideas?

Bryony  xx

[Lolly]

Hope you don't mind, but I'm marking my spot because we have nearly the same issues!

It's not quite as regular for us, but we get nights when he wakes about 1am ish and will lie awake alternating being quiet and still, trying to get up and play and crying for up to 2.5 hours. He is an early riser - anytime from 5am so it's a killer!

I do wonder about OT, he goes to nursery 3 afternoons and we travel at what should be sleep time so some days he has 2 25 min catnaps which is not enough but like Katie shows no signs of OT during the day.  I'm pretty sure that the 5am starts are habit and OT, but a week of bedtime 1/1.5 hours earlier made no difference and everytime I plan WTS he does something different like more NW and sleeps in a little. He has only once in his life slept 12 hours straight, usually it's 10 sometimes 11.

We are also dealing with reflux which I put down as the reason for the night "partying" - but I really am clutching at straws now!

Lets hope someone has some words of wisdom for us!

Laura

[Mom_to_L&S]

Hi Bryony,

Even though we arenŽt experiencing this nor have we experienced it in the past, IŽd thought IŽd pop in to at least give you a big hug for the ongoing sleep-deprivation. 

It does strike me that there seem to be quite a few posts on here with the same issue, midnight-wakings with a hard time settling, which leads me to believe it could be teething? Are you noticing any new teeth on the way? Have you tried with painmeds when Katie wakes at midnight?

Sophie x

[Bryony]

Hi Sophie - thanks for the hugs and the thoughts! Much appreciated.

Laura - sorry to hear you are experiencing a similar thing.   Maybe we can swap ideas and see if we can find anything that works!

I've been wondering about teething too Sophie - Katie does from time to time bite on something and then grimace in pain and then pull around her ears - and her gums are getting a bit lumpy at the back so we might have some molars on the way. I do give her pain meds before she goes to bed and when she wakes at midnight, but doesn't seem to make any difference.....  but yes this is one of my theories. I wonder why it only bothers her every alternate night though?

OT was my other main idea - and am gong to try bed time half an hour to an hour earlier every night this week to see if that helps.... yesterday we had a 30 min nap at lunchtime which would support the OT theory, she then fell alseep in the car (which she NEVER does) and slept for an hour even after I transferred her out and into the buggy, late afternoon - so maybe OT is the thing.

Anyway I will try and only change one thing at a time and will go for a slightly earlier nap and a much earlier bedtime this week to see what happens...

Thanks for the support!

Bryony x

[Vicku]

Hope it settles down Bryony. I was also going to suggest the molars as part of the issue if she hasn't had them through yet, they are due around this age. Have you tried Calprofen? I find it much better than normal Calpol as it's ibuprofen instead of Paracetamol, and better for teething pain.

Who knows, it could be bad dreams waking her too, which would explain some of the SA that she doesn't want you to leave. Is there anything else in your daily lives that happens every other day? What are her days like? I know you posted the routine she has, but is there anything else that seems to preceed the NWs, like playdates with other kids or other stimulating things that might make her a little anxious?
Just some thoughts... it's not easy knowing...

Think your plan is good though to try earlier bedtimes and naps for a few days and see if that helps. We went through a phase of OT after the 2-1 switch, it can come after a whiole on the new routine so could just be that coupled with teething?

Hope it all gets better soon though and that you can get some sleep to catch up on your own OT and sleep deprivation!

Big hugs!!!

[Bryony]

Hmm, no there isn't anything that happens every other day - I go to work Tue, Wed and Thur and my neighbour looks after her - but the NW still alternate through this - and becuase they will be on different days of the week every other week I can't think of anything else that's on an alternate day pattern...

I've started using ibuprofen instead of paracetamol a few days ago so will also see if this helps!

Today I put her down a bit earlier for her nap and she only slept for 1.5hrs instead of 2hrs +, so not sure that this was a good move. Anyway will go for a much earlier bedtime tonight as a result, and stick with this for a while.

Always something to keep us guessing isn't there!

Bxx

[Vicku]

I can see how it really makes you wonder. If it was every night or just random nights through the week it'd make more sense, every other day really is puzzling... Well, I hope tonight goes well and it improves soon!

Lots of hugs and good sleep vibes for you both!!!

[Bryony]

Laura - how is it going with you?

Here it's still ongoing - exactly the same pattern!  I have been putting her to bed half an hour earlier but she just chats and sings until her usual bedtime - it's rather cute actually and I am hoping it will give her practice being happy and awake in her cot - but so far no effect on the NW. Last night I had ONE HOUR sleep all night....  I was such a grump in work...

Do let me know if you come up with any inspirations!

Bryony

[Lolly]

Oh Bryony - 1hour  , it's a nightmare. Does your other half do a fair share of the night duty?

We had our last cot party a week ago, it's just early waking at the moment. This morning and yesterday we had a scream fest at 4am . Yesterday it took a bottle of milk and an hour to get him back to sleep, today just a resettle but he was awake at 5.30 and we managed to ignore the half awake grumping/complaining for 20 mins. Yesterday I was working in the am instead of pm so of course he slept until 6.45 - the latest for weeks.

It will be interesting to see how tonight goes as he had a 35 min nap at lunchtime on the way to nursery and about 1 hour on the way home - he woke at 5 after I moved him from the car to his cot still asleep.

We are keeping a diary for our next GI appointment for the reflux. In a few weeks we have to drop his medication so the diary is to see if things get worse/stay the same when we do.

What about physical activity time - I wondered if he isn't getting enough "walking around outside in the fresh air" time whilst mulling over ideas so we went to the park and he walked his legs off yesterday.

If things go as normal you should get some sleep tonight? I hope so, {{{sleepy vibes}}} to both our babies!

Laura

[Bryony]

Yes hopefully I will get some sleep tonight....  DH does do some nights - but TBH I can't sleep a wink while I can hear Katie wailing in the next room, so I am not sure that it makes any difference whether he goes to her or me. I usually have to go and get him (he's usually still up at 11pm) to point out that she's crying anyway   

so glad that your NW have stopped. I always think that I can (sort of) cope with NW, OR EW, but both together a real killer....

We had a day at the weekend when Katie woke after 30 mins of her lunchtime nap, and then fell asleep in the car on the way back from swimming in the afternoon (both of which are unheard of!) and she did fine that night - so fingers crossed for you tonight!! 

Katie has been doing lots of walking too - she started walking unaided a few weeks ago and is running all over the house with glee. We had an awful week of sleep the week she started walking, with her waking up every half an hour or so trying to stand up and walk in her cot....      but that stopped after a week. I suppose this recent batch of NW could be due to her legs aching or something?  She does seem so restless when she wakes

Anyway sleepy vibes to you too 

[Maeve]

I can't help, only sympathise, and I can't for the life of me understand the pattern.
The one thing that was the same with our DS2 was the timing, until he was 9 or 10 months old he woke from 12 until 2 am most nights. He also had erflux, and it sorted itself out when the reflux did. I was never sure, so I didn't try any of Tracey's techniques on him, but what about wake to sleep? Every second night, I mean?

[Bryony]

Thanks Maeve

Yes I was wondering about W2S....  I might ask DH to give it a go tomorrow before he goes to bed.

Funny, Katie had reflux too so that's one thing all our LOs have in common. Hers seem to resolve though when she was about 4-5 months old and we haven't had any problems since - but I did also wonder whether this may be affecting her now.

Hmm - all these things to think about - my brain is running around in circles!

Bxx

[Maeve]

Well, my DS always slept really well until the early hours of the morning, and would never take a dream feed, or if he did he would cry for 2 hours. It seemed as if after a day of being relatively upright he could setttle well in the evening, but then after so much time lying down he became unsettled, and would wake in the early hours.

[Lolly]

Hey Bryony, did Katie sleep for you last night?

We had an interesting evening. We put him to bed a bit later because he had a late nap but just as we finished cleaning his teeth back came some of his bottle - the joys of reflux, so by the time we sorted him out he was even later going to bed . Screaming fit at 2.30am instead of 4am and then up at normal time 5.30 (and restless crying/complaining for 30 mins before that). So guess what - tired grumpy child today (some days I don't mind nursery - evil mummy ).

Thankfully he is at home all tomorrow and Friday, Grandma comes to look after him so he can catch up on the lost sleep with good day naps.

Laura

[Bryony]

Oh sorry to hear about the rough night - sounds like he got OT. As you say, at least he can catch up over the next few days

Yes we got sleep last night - it was our sleep night! So I actually functionned in work today. So based on the usual pattern it will be no sleep tonight - and I also have a rare night out so I won't be back till 11pm and so can't even get in an hour or so before she wakes at 11...

hey ho!

Hope tonight is better for you

xx