Author Topic: SOS Close to switching to formula HELP!  (Read 1685 times)

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Offline Claire Anne

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SOS Close to switching to formula HELP!
« on: June 11, 2008, 20:22:57 pm »
Thought that might grab your attention  ;)
Seriously though I am at the end of my rope. I have a 3 month old DD who feeds better from a bottle than the breast regardless of whether breastmilk or formula is coming out of it and I can't for the life of me work out why?!!
She has the worst wind I have ever seen (she's my third - you'd think I'd know what I was doing by now, wouldn't you?!!) so I reduced my dairy intake loads and had her tested for lactose intolerance. It showed up a minor problem but not enough to indicate a real problem. She fusses so much feeding on the breast that the supply has now been compromised as well but sinks 7 or 8 oz of ebm or formula from a bottle no problem.
Has anyone ever heard of such a strange problem? With a 2 and 3 year old to consider, I am seriously considering dropping it to 2 feeds as she is so cross when I breastfeed her exclusively that it affects us all. Which isn't fair on her or the other 2. I feel so sorry for the poor thing as the wind and the hunger make her so miserable that I need to do something about this. She did have a lot of difficulty feeding early on as I had a very fast flow and enough milk to feed twins plus she had a blocked nose a lot of the time so it was difficult for her. But all that has settled and still I have a wriggly upset little baby when she's feeding.
It doesn't hurt when I feed her so it's not a latch on problem. I am flummoxed!!! Am I a complete weirdo or what's going on?!  ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ???

Niamh - Best small girl in the whole wide world
Amy - 2 1/2 Best big girl in the whole wide world
Éanna - Best boy ever

Offline Lolly

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Re: SOS Close to switching to formula HELP!
« Reply #1 on: June 11, 2008, 20:41:46 pm »
{{{HUGS}}} to you - although I am relieved that mums of 3 don't know what they are doing either ;)

I can't help on the BF side as we formula fed. I do know that bf babies will down milk from a bottle because it is so much easier than having to work for it so using the slowest possible flow teat may help a bit. I also could be way off base here but have you looked at the reflux boards? It may be worth having a look at the Reflux 101 sticky to see if anything rings a bell. Being very windy, fussing during feeding, being congested *could* be symptoms of reflux.

Hopefully my idea is wrong and someone else will have a simpler thought for you :-\

Laura


Offline Claire Anne

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Re: SOS Close to switching to formula HELP!
« Reply #2 on: June 11, 2008, 20:50:37 pm »
Thanks for the reply Laura!!! I'm hoping I'm not the only mom of 3 who hasn't yet got a clue?!!!
She did spit up an awful lot when she was very small but doesn't anymore but I'll head of over to the reflux boards alright and see if there is anything there good idea!
I did wonder if the almost upright position of the bottle feed suited her better but she doesn't have a problem when I lay her down after a feed so maybe not? Oh who knows I am at the end of my rope at this stage!! I really don't want to give up breastfeeding but if she is happier and so then are the rest of us I think I may just have to give in gracefully and accept defeat!!

Niamh - Best small girl in the whole wide world
Amy - 2 1/2 Best big girl in the whole wide world
Éanna - Best boy ever

Offline clh

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Re: SOS Close to switching to formula HELP!
« Reply #3 on: June 11, 2008, 21:09:26 pm »
I'm sorry no concrete answers come to mind.  Several questions/thoughts did, though, so here goes.
How long has this been going on? 
Are you sure you don't still have an overactive (or sudden or whatever you call it) letdown?   
She's also at the age where everything else becomes more interesting.  She may prefer bottle cause it's easier & might be able to get her feed over with quicker? 
How many breast feeds are you currently trying to do?  How many bottles per day? 
Is she fussy going thru the 3-month growth spurt & your supply hasn't caught up yet? 
Why do you think your supply has been compromised? 

{{Hugs}} hun.  I'm sorry I have more questions than answers right now.  I guess my biggest one is:  What do you really want to do?  We can try to help you get her back to breast, or try to help you mix feed (or whatever it's called), or try to encourage you however we can.  :)  {{hugs}}
Candice



Offline Claire Anne

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Re: SOS Close to switching to formula HELP!
« Reply #4 on: June 11, 2008, 21:31:46 pm »
Ideally I'd like to bf until she is one but can't help feeling that's a pipe dream!!
She has been difficult to feed in terms of wind and fussing for pretty much all her little life really but it has actually been getting harder to deal with lately - maybe because I have all 3 at home now and she can cry a little louder now!!!!
She has been bottle fed ebm for her dream feed since 3 weeks but switched to formula a few weeks ago for that feed but this was the only one I wanted to be of formula yet.
I do wonder if the fact that she is almost upright when bottle fed is the reason she prefers it or maybe as the teat is harder to twist away from is the reason she feeds from it more easily. The wind is something else though - I can feel the bubbles go down and her tummy gurgles when feeding which really doesn't seem normal in one so small.
She had a very obvious growth spurt last week alright and I think between that and messing around feeding certainly is a problem but unless I can get her to take full proper feeds I can't see how I can catch up. I express as much as I can (that's why I think I don't have enough at certain times) to try to keep it up but feel I am fighting a losing battle.
I probably do have a fast letdown still alright as I can feel it distinctly - it still almost hurts when the milk comes in.   
I am trying really hard to keep bf-ing so if anyone has any help with that I'd be delighted! Thanks Candice and Laura for your help so far!!

Niamh - Best small girl in the whole wide world
Amy - 2 1/2 Best big girl in the whole wide world
Éanna - Best boy ever

Offline Sylvansmam

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Re: SOS Close to switching to formula HELP!
« Reply #5 on: June 11, 2008, 22:27:09 pm »
I had this problem with my lo and it turned out she had reflux. as demonstrated by the spitting up. but accordung to bw they dont always spit up with reflux. or spitting up isnt just a sympotm of reflux.

i know for a fact that my let down was really fast and frightening my lo, making her gulp in tons of air and hop on and off the boob.
heres a few ideas:

try feeding baby lying down, or up hill (never mastered that one!)
have your breast pads ready. start baby sucking on the side they should be starting on, put them on the emptier breast for a minute while the full breast automatically lets down (spills?) and then switch back to the fuller one when some of the very fast milk has let down.
or you could pump a bit form the full breast to get to the thicker milk., then offer the for milk from the bottle at the end of the feed.

its very frustrating, believe me i know. and it requires huge organisation when you have kids and you are there trying to pump with baby whilst distracting the other kids.

its not easy, but you are doing a great job by feeding yourself. good luck. 

NoelleChristine

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Re: SOS Close to switching to formula HELP!
« Reply #6 on: June 11, 2008, 22:28:40 pm »
Hugs...I'm a mom of 4 and I know it's hard especially in the early months.  It kinda sounds to me like you started out with a fast letdown and now you've kinda morphed into a baby that prefers the bottle over the breast.  So, that's going to effect pretty much everything with regards to feeding, her being content, your supply, your stress, her stress.

You can breast feed to a year with two other little ones, I'm a testament to that (but my two younger boys are 6 and 4, big difference  between 2 & 3.)  It'll probably take some special efforts on your part, like skin to skin time during feeds and even at other times through the day.  Pretty much get naked from the waist up, strip baby down to diaper and just hold her, walk around, sing, lay down, sleep etc.  Have you tried feeding in separate, quite, maybe even darkened room? 

I know, easier said than done with 2 other little ones running around the house and of course that comes into the decision making process.

Hugs again!  Hang in there!

:)

Offline deenz

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Re: SOS Close to switching to formula HELP!
« Reply #7 on: June 12, 2008, 01:42:27 am »
I don't know what the problem is, but it sounds very much like what dd2 was like.  She was an absolute nightmare to feed (from about 3wks old).  I couldn't feed her out in public (only at someone's place that I knew well) since I had to walk around etc while feeding her to get anything decent into her really (while she screamed mostly!).  I didn't try bottles as I didn't want to know if she preferred them!  ;).  She was diagnosed with silent reflux (hardly ever spilled a drop), but as far as I could tell the meds did nothing. 

However, things got soooo much better at around 4mo.  I don't know why.  Nothing else changed, just her age!  She too didn't really have any sleep probs which was why I wasn't sure re the reflux diagnosis.  She loved her dummy (paci) though (I guess she wasn't getting her 'sucking needs' met at the breast).  Hugs for you, I know how tough it is, especially with other kids too.  Hopefully improvement is just around the corner for you too??  :-*

Offline clh

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Re: SOS Close to switching to formula HELP!
« Reply #8 on: June 12, 2008, 03:10:44 am »
Does she get the wind whether it's bottle or breast?  How many feeds a day does she have?  Do you try to bf at all of them (except df)?  How many end up being bottles? 

A few thoughts...  First, please don't rely on your pumping output to tell you anything about your supply.  It doesn't.  Some women with oversupply can hardly pump a drop.  LO's are much more efficient at getting milk out than pumps are.  Even if you're pumping at a time when dd is taking a bottle for a feed, you still may not / probably won't get out as much as she drinks.  That's normal.  Some women are lucky enough to pump that much at once, but from my experience & the ladies I've heard about, that's the exception, not the rule.

If you want her back to breast & she's preferring bottle because it's easier, maybe it's time to make the bottle harder, too.  My LC told me to use the slow-flow teats as long as possible.  Another tip I got was to let lo take a few swallows from the bottle, remove it from lo's mouth, wait a few moments, and repeat.  That way it's not the fast, immediate gratification of a gravity-assisted bottle.

Other thoughts, not sure how helpful...  Try breast first, incorporating some of the fast-letdown-abatement techniques others have mentioned.  If you still need to feed her not on the breast, what about that supplemental feeding method where you have a tube next to your nipple, the babe puts the whole thing in their mouth, and essentially sucks thru a straw while also stimulating you?  Somebody help... what's that called?

I feel like I'm just splattering you with ideas, but no *plan* of how to help.  I *DO* know about the pump thing though.  ;)  I've lived that part.  Are you UK, by chance?  I know they have some bf'ing helpline numbers you can call, with pretty good results from what I hear.  The numbers are on the FAQ page.  More {{hugs}} & I'll keep thinking.  :)
Candice



Offline Claire Anne

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Re: SOS Close to switching to formula HELP!
« Reply #9 on: June 12, 2008, 06:42:07 am »
Thanks everyone!
I've only really been bottle feeding rather than breast in the last couple of days. When she went through her growth spurt I used the bottle to see if she was hungry (using the logic that she might use the breast for comfort (!!!!!) so with bottle could at least see what was happening - she nearly sucked the whole thing into her mouth!!!) so for a bit of respite from the crying I used the bottle again for many of her feeds in the last 2 days. I am expressing too as I'm holding on to the hope that I'll figure this out - with help from here no doubt!!
She has wind regardless - but with the bottle at least she's not hungry too. I am never certain if she's had enough when bf-ing as after up to an hour of winding and trying I do give up. And often it seems as if there is more to be had if she'd only take it! I have rarely had a comfortable feed with her, where she just lies peacefully and suckles.
I should also have mentioned that her nappies don't look right. (TMI alert!) I thought she had a tummy bug last week as they were so watery and now it looks as if she is poo-ing cottage cheese and diarrhoea. Even on the day she had 4 formula feeds and I expected more substantial poo, it looked very liquidy. She has in the past had ones that look almost fizzy!
So I think I need to find out if there's a problem physically first. All I got checked was lactose intolerance but from reading some of posts here there are a few possibilities that I'll get checked out before I give up.
Thanks everyone. Wasn't expecting to be so clueless on no 3!!!!

Niamh - Best small girl in the whole wide world
Amy - 2 1/2 Best big girl in the whole wide world
Éanna - Best boy ever

NoelleChristine

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Re: SOS Close to switching to formula HELP!
« Reply #10 on: June 12, 2008, 13:24:40 pm »
I should also have mentioned that her nappies don't look right. (TMI alert!) I thought she had a tummy bug last week as they were so watery and now it looks as if she is poo-ing cottage cheese and diarrhoea. Even on the day she had 4 formula feeds and I expected more substantial poo, it looked very liquidy. She has in the past had ones that look almost fizzy!

This actually sounds pretty normal.  I remember some fizzy poops myself.  And BF babies poop can be cottage cheesy and watery as well.  I remember the liquid part just soaking into the diaper and the cottage cheese was left over...weird!  There really is such a wide range of "normal" (of course...nothings easy.)

I hear you about being clueless.  I remember that feeling in the early months as well.  You know this but I'll remind you, it does get easier as they get older.  My "baby" is a year now and things are so much fun.

Offline clh

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Re: SOS Close to switching to formula HELP!
« Reply #11 on: June 12, 2008, 18:32:26 pm »
RE: normal poo...  You may want to take a look at this:  https://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=114674.0.  It has pics & everything!  ;D 
Candice