8 mth old learning to sleep on his own while teething

[Fishmum]

One of the problems with starting as you mean to go on is that as a new parent you often don't know how you mean to go on! I only found Tracey's books about a month ago at the library - till then my only examples were unstructured, attachment-based parenting or scheduling and cio. I was never willing to cry it out - though I hadn't read Tracey's books yet, I knew it was something I couldn't justify. We co-slept for the first 7 months, and I would BF him to sleep. We didn't have an official routine, but we had a rhythm and I was actually one of the most rested and happy moms I knew.

Between 6-7 months as he started to get more mobile it became apparent we would need to move him to his own crib. Also, I knew it was time to get him to fall asleep w/out the breast as a prop. We used PU/pd and had a lot of success w/ it, and as I read more we shifted to the 8 mth + version where we lie him down (which is good because he's 20 lbs!). We'd been doing well, as long as he's not overtired he will doze off as I sing/talk to him and rub his back). He still wakes 2-3 times a night to eat, but just when I had been ready to try and cut out a feeding, he started waking all the time. Some nights he's woken 5-6 times (every 45 min followed by a 2-3 hour stretch), or he'll only wake twice but he'll stay awake an hour or more. He's also been waking for the day between 4:30 and 5:30 am. I'm not even sure where to start with all this. I know he's teething, Motrin will buy us a 2-3 hour stretch but then he starts waking again and we can't just give him more. I am also trying to establish a proper easy routine for the day, but he's refusing food at times (teething, I think), and his naps are erratic cause he's overtired.

I think as much as anything else I need to decide where I can focus, because feeling like I need to fix this or I'm being a bad mother was giving me a mini-breakdown. Where do I start?

[stagemanager2]

oh sweetheart!  you are not a bad mommy!  Remember that you are trying to fix it and that in of itself shows what a good mom you are.  You want to help your lo learn, instead of making them learn all alone!  I think you are great!  And I know anyone else who reads this will agree!

So, first off, a thousand hugs and welcome...

I would rule out SA first.  It may be worse because he moved to his own bed recently and hasn't gotten used to being alone?  Just keep an eye out...
https://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=62612.0

Can he fall asleep independantly?  Is there a prop you use to get him to sleep?  How did you move him into his bed (ie. in stages, floor of your room then his room etc. or one night he just had to sleep in his bed and not with you)?  Does he sleep there easily?  Do you have him sleep somewhere else for naps? 

With the teething it's hard to really get them to focus as they are hurting, poor dears, but there will always be something so I would start asap... I would first try to get him to eat more in the day and stop the night feeds.  getting rid of these will help with the routine in the day.  sometimes when mom goes in to comfort they can smell your milk so it might be good to have dh or family member spend a night or two helping you out soothing him back to sleep.  He may get the idea that no one is going to feed him so he'll just go bakc to sleep!

Next how long are his A times?  How many naps does he have in the day?  You don't have to have a perfect schedule posted but if you could perhaps what has happened inthe past day or two... it might help to look at the whole picture. (EAS style)

[brenda2]

hugs!  it really sounds like you are trying to do what is best for your little guy.  you are not a bad mother!

it sounds like you are ready to go ahead and teach him independent sleep, which is great!  but if he's teething it may be best to wait until that's over before tackling this as it is going to be hard since he is older and has been used to many props.  if they're in pain it's not appropriate to use pu/pd and it won't work anyway because they're in pain.

teething can also cause them to be OT more quickly, so ensure he's getting lots of naps, perhaps more often than before he was teething.  even if you have to resort to AP to get him to nap, it's better than having him OT, because if he's OT then that's going to cause a lot of NWs (it always did for us).

hugs to you, you can get through this!  we are going through the teething thing too, so if it makes  you feel better, my LO who has been on EASY since she was 3 months and is a great independent sleeper (STTN consistently) and great napper has been doing short naps and waking once or twice at night for an hour + screaming too.  darned teeth!!  i don't think there' much you can do until it's over.  then come back and we'll tackle the other problems you have.

oops as i was typing there was another post...oh well, 2 different opinions!

[stagemanager2]

oops as i was typing there was another post...oh well, 2 different opinions!

actually- You may be right.... perhaps taking a day or two to catch up on sleep (for yourself and your babe) would get you ready to tackle the hard stuff ...

[Fishmum]

Thanks for the support, it does help. Last night he was awake every hour!!! I did actually take him back to bed with me this morning for a short nap - it put both of us in a better mood. I think if I can still keep up putting him down in his crib regularly that it may not become a habit again which is okay. I will worry less about getting long naps out of him today and just try to get him to sleep whenever he acts tired. You would think I would be a total wreck today but strangely I am feeling a lot better than I was (as long as I don't worry about HOW I'm going to get in a good night's sleep).

It's kinda funny about the routine... I had read that the loose routine might be one of the reasons for the frequent waking, so I had been really working at the routine. However, I realized yesterday that it was stressing both of us out - mealtimes and bedtimes felt like fights. So I let it go some, took him for a walk yesterday and let him sleep in the stroller, and I got to relax in the park and feel human again instead of feeling like a cooped-up, freaky, overtired mom. And he ate better this morning then he had  been (no screaming for a change!). We are still working on how to space out solids and BF but he's on a loose 4 hour routine w/ 2 naps a day, and when not teething he'll usually nap at least 1 - 2 hours each, usually about 3 hours total. When I was trying to impose structured timing on everything is when it started getting unpleasant.

He is at the stage where he will fall asleep in the crib, but we still need to rub his back and help him lie down again when he  pulls himself up (which is apparently a compulsion at this stage!). He is also going through some SA so yes, it could be part of the problem. One of our biggest issues with NW is he still wants to eat - he's 20 lbs so he's not starving, but I'm not sure what approach to take - he is BF so I can't decrease the amount in the bottle. I could try timing them and shortening the time, that approach is going to take a while though and I am so craving a real night's sleep (or even 4-5 consecutive hours!). I suppose the alternative is to do PU/PD but he's not going to like it!

If the NW was just for eating, it might not be so bad, but I don't know with all the wakings if he is hurting or hungry or it's SA or what. Sometimes  he just takes 5 minutes to put back to sleep so I don't think it's the teeth, but then he's awake again in an hour... I know patience and consistency are what I need most right now, I was losing both and I think that's why he and I were both so frustrated. But how can you be consistent when you can't decide what to do next? And how does one make a plan when sleep deprivation has probably lowered my IQ to the level of a smarter-than-average hamster?

All support and miracle cures are appreciated. :-)

Thanks for the hugs. Megan

[stagemanager2]

GIRL!  I know what you mean about the scheduling stressing you out!  I completely understand!  There was a post on the forums a long time ago about a mom who tried to just go with the flow with her lo for a day or two and found that they had a better night and were both more relaxed! 

we compare ourselves to other moms and how their child is doing and we want to make sure we are doing the right things and feeding the babe the right food and so many other worries!  Let's not even start into how many child items have been removed from market because they were unsafe!  This stuff makes us CRAZY!  Sometimes letting your insticts rule for a bit actually helps! 

Sometimes our instict's plans are better then the ones we have been trying to manipulate the situation with... you never know, and you don't know if it'll work until you try, eh? 

I'm glad you had a good walk and rest at the park... had a nice walk today aswell, dh was getting sick of my over analysing of ds eating habits!  It's nice to feel like a person every once and a while.

I've got tons of sleepy vibes being sent your way!  I hope tonight might be a bit better...

[brenda2]

i have felt stressed out when trying to get LO to nap in the crib too, not to mention you go stir crazy because you are inside all day worrying about the next nap.  i think it's good you went out and it's ok to have him sleep in the stroller every once in a while, it's different prop than feeding to sleep or rocking etc.

you hit a key there...it's all about consistency!!  so once you figure out what approach you're going to take stick to it.  so if he wakes in the night an hour after you fed him and he's crying and you decide to do pu/pd, do it until he's asleep and don't cave!!  and the more you can comfort in the crib or do pu/pd rather than take him out for cuddles or sleep with you overnight the better.

[Fishmum]

Well, he took some work to get down to sleep tonight but my husband handled it. I'm going to go to bed in the next few minutes and DH will wake me for the dream feed... I think getting him to stretch time between feeds w/ pu/pd would be good but I don't know if I should wait till the bad teething ends or no... all depends how long that takes and of course no one can tell me that!

One question about SA - if I'm leaving the room so my husband can put baby to sleep, and DS has a bout of SA, do I stay away so I don't interfere w/ my husband putting him down, or do I try wi/wo? I've been staying away but I really want to make bedtimes as pleasant as possible for him.

Also, any wind-down tips for a spirited (and wiggly) baby? I feel like we aren't doing enough to wind him down but he won't sit still for books or anything when he's tired, and he loves his bath but it seems to wake him up because he gets so excited. I feel like sometimes we are almost never putting him to bed when he's really truly sleepy - he always seems either wide awake or overtired.

Thanks again, I talked to a friend on the phone today and he said I sounded a lot better then 2 days ago. I'm still tired, but I think I'm coming into this with a different attitude. I am so grateful that I am able to be at home with him, at least. My heart goes out to all those moms who have to do this while working full time (and as soon as I get a little free time, I'll post and tell them).

[stagemanager2]

not sure about the SA question...

on the one hand los tend to need one of the two parents during sa times...

but on the other changing parents up during pupd or winddown tends to OS them and make it harder for them to do down...

[brenda2]

it's good to have a wind down routine that signals it's bedtime now...but if a bath winds him up and is too stimulating it may be better to switch it to the morning and not do it before bed.  spirited LOs often do better with a shorter winddown, which if he won't stay still for books etc may be a good idea.  i would keep the activity pretty low key for the hour before bed, this can be sort of your winddown.  nothing too exciting, then into a dark room for the last feed and a short cuddle  and maybe a lullaby and into bed.

i agree with stagemangaer2, if dh is putting him to bed and you are popping in and out of the room that is way too stimulating.  especially for a pirited LO.  one or the other of you should handle it by yourself.  my LO has had some SA issues the last 2 weeks and we have found it's better if she doesn't see me at all. i put her to bed ok, but if she wakes and is crying dh has better luck calming her down and putting her back to sleep.  if she sees me she just cries harder. 

my DD is teething right now too, and although she usually sleeps through the night she has had some wakings where she is wide awake and screaming until we can get more tylenol into her and it has a chance to kick in (1 hour +).  so you know your LO best, and if he's really in pain then pu/pd is not going to work.

[Fishmum]

We're doing a little better now... he seems to be having better nights and is only waking to eat. He's still having early mornings (5 - 5:30 am) which are rough... I'm hoping to break him of those but to be honest I am often too tired so I'll just give him some toys and let him play in his crib. But we're down to a dream feed and one at about 2 am, then the 5:30 wake up most nights. I'll work on getting him off the feeds shortly, in the meantime we're using wi/wo to get him to fall asleep w/out us there. Then hopefully when he's not eating at night I might someday get 7-8 hours of uninterrupted sleep! (I think it's been about a year since that last happened...).

Thanks so much for all your support!

[stagemanager2]

I'm glad it seems to be getting better...

I just thought of something.  Have you ever tried to just not give the df?  we found with ds that it make the nw and ew worse when we df... I'm not sure if that would help but I think at this age the df is usually weaned?  I'm not totally sure...

[brenda2]

we weaned the df at about 8 months, but that was after we weaned the night feed first.  you could try a night without it cold  turkey and see what happens, some babies do better with, some without.  but if you are going to wean a feed wean the 2 am one first, then the df.