fighting afternoon naps...HELP!!!!

[cjb]

My lo is 7mo old.  We are on 4 hour EASY, and our mornings are wonderful!  He goes down for a nap w/ no problem and usually sleeps for an hour, sometimes more.  His midday nap isn't quite as easy, but it's not a struggle w/ a little longer wind down time, and he'll sleep for about an hour.  BUT getting him to sleep for the 3rd nap (generally late afternoon to early evening) is a nightmare!!!

We watch for his sleepy signs, and begin winding down as soon as we see them.  LO gets all relaxed and calm, but as soon as we lower him into the crib, he starts this pitiful high pitched schrill cry.  I've thought that he needed more A time, quiet and calm, but he's cranky if we try to play, and he still fights the nap when we put him down.  I'm embarrassed to admit this, but we've resorted to using the bouncy seat to get him to sleep, then we'll transfer him to his bed.  I KNOW this is a very bad habit, but we are at our wits end after an hour of trying (and fatigue at the end of the day leads to a lack of patience).  Sometimes he'll catnap, and other times he'll sleep for 2+ hours and we have to wake him up!  I don't know what's going on, and it's confusing how the other naps can be so easy, and this one so hard.

I am going back to work in Aug. and I'm dreading coming home to a screaming baby every day and missing his happiest time of day.  How can I help my lo have a better afternoon/evening???

[deckchariot]

Can you post your 4 hr EASY?  It's possible he's ready to increase his A time and drop that 3rd nap altogether, but you'll want his earlier naps to be a bit longer then.  Let's have a look at your routine first and go from there.

hth
michelle

[cjb]

Here's our EASY routine.  The times vary from day to day depending on what time lo wakes up, and whether or not we run errands, but the times only vary by an hour at most.

E wake 6.00/6.30 and bf
S usually goes back to sleep til 7.00/7.30
A 7.30
E 8.00/8.15 solids
A 8.45
S 9.30/10.00 (for an hour, sometimes more)
Y

E 10.30/11.00 bf
A 11.20 (if we're running errands, going to the park, strolling, etc., this is when we get out)
S 1.30/2.00 (for an hour or more--UNLESS we've been running errands and he's fallen asleep in the car, then he doesn't nap so well)
Y

E 2.30/3.00 bf
A 3.20
E 4.00 solids
A 4.30
S 5.00/6.00 (he gets cranky anywhere from 5 to 6 in the evening...and this is where we get into trouble )
--he'll either catnap for about 30 min or he'll sleep until 8 or 9 when we wake him (I'm journaling when he catnaps and when he really sleeps, and seeing what our activity that day looks like to see if that's a factor)
--it usually takes as much as an hour to get him to sleep unless we put him in the bouncy seat (he'll go right to sleep in the bouncy  )
Y

E 8.00 (w/ catnap) or 9.00 (w/ long sleep) bf
A 8.20/9.20 (A is very short, quiet, calm, and low key...putting on pj's, singing, etc.)
E bottle w/ formula and cereal when he starts to fuss
S 9.00/10.00 goes down for the night very easily right after the bottle (very little night waking, and goes back to sleep easily w/ paci if he does wake)

I'm open to any and all suggestions!!!

[deckchariot]

a couple things I notice with your routine - first, it's a pretty long day for him - most lo's work best on 12/13 hr days and it looks like he's closer to 15, so that bedtime really needs to come earlier.  Also, it looks like his  A times may be a bit short - most lo's are close to 3 hrs by his age.  Also, does he fall asleep on the breast at the 6/6:30 feed or is there some other reason his day doesn't start then?  I'm wondering if that's messing things up a bit then too.  Also wondering if maybe 3 meals a day would be good - looks like he's just on 2 solids (plus sometimes cereal at night?), so perhaps he's ready for more.  Have you had any trouble introducing solids?

I'm thinking if you can lengthen his A times a bit and move his bedtime earlier, he can do with just 2 naps.  Maybe try something like this:

E - 6:30 (when waking)
A - solids same as now
S - work towards 9:30 for this nap (I know that's where you are now, but this is w/o him going back to sleep @ 6:30)

E - 11:30 (when waking)
A - solids around 12:30/1
S - work towards 2:30 (I would say start extending by 10-15 min  a day)

E - 4:30 (when waking)
A - solids around 5:30/6

E - bf around 6:30 with your regular bedtime and then to bed.

I know that looks like an early bedtime, so you may not want to go cold turkey on him.  I'd start moving that bedtime back 30  a day.  He's getting cranky in the evening, because he's tired, so let him go to bed.  I suspect as you lenghten A times and move bedtime earlier, his wake up will get a bit later as well.

Does that make sense?

hth
michelle

[cjb]

Thanks, Michelle!
What you wrote makes a lot of sense.  His days are long when you count up the hours, which I obviously haven't done before.  I've battled in my mind whether or not he needs an earlier bedtime.  He'll only see his dad for maybe 30min to an hour a day during the week if he goes to bed @ 6.30, which is the main reason he goes to bed so late.  Our lifestyle isn't really conducive to such an early bedtime, but we want to do what's best. We'll just have to make the best of the short time they'll spend together--quality, not quantity, right?!  That said, could a 7.30 or 8.00 bedtime be a reasonable goal if he takes longer naps?

Since I'm not currently working, I've let him fall asleep at the breast in the morning so I can go back to sleep too.  When I go back to work in Aug, his day will definitely start around 6.00, so I need to start doing this now.  I'll start working on extending his A times by 10-15 minutes a day.  It looks like his naps will be longer, too.  Will he do this on his own, or will I need to help him extend his naps?  Your routine looked like s/t we can definitely do. 

Introducing solids did not go very well.  I posted on the feeding message boards and got some help there.  In a nutshell...My milk supply decreased and my lo wouldn't nurse for more than about 7-10 minutes.  It was suggested that I not see the solid foods as "eating" as much as I see it as my lo "tasting" the food, so I cut back on the amount of solids he was getting so that the main source of nutrition would still be breastmilk.  It was also suggested that eating in the evening wasn't giving his system time to digest, so I moved a meal to the late afternoon, and cereal in his bedtime bottle (which I was counting as his 3rd solid).  Anyway...all the eating issues we've experienced since he turned 6mo seem to be working themselves out, and he's nursing and eating much better. 

Thanks for taking the time to help me out!  I value that advice I get here!
Carrie 

[deckchariot]

Carrie - glad I made sense   If he's had a history of being a decent napper, he will probably lengthen his naps on his own as you extend his A time...keep in mind that it may take him a couple days to adjust, so extend 10-15 min every 2 or 3 days so it's not so much a shock to his system.

In terms of length of day, if he's going to be starting his day at 6 when you go back to work, you're probably going to be looking at 7ish for a bedtime - unless he turns out to be a bub who needs less sleep.  I know that makes it hard to have daddy time - so yeah, quality is key - maybe even have a special thing daddy can do - like he always does bath time or something.

Glad the eating is sorting itself out, I would try to keep from giving cereal in the bedtime bottle - that can lead to NWs when they eat solids so close to bedtime (think about how you sleep if you've eaten a big meal at bedtime...)

keep me posted!

michelle

[cjb]

Just wanted to give you an update...

Began working on new EASY routine yesterday.  Here's what happened...
E 6.oo bf
A 7.30 solids
S 8.00--he fell asleep on my shoulder as I carried him from his high chair in the kitchen to the den for more A time, so I put him in bed; he slept for 1hr 15min

E 9.30 bf
A 10.30 solids
S 12:45--he started showing sleepy signs around 11; I tried to get 10 more min of A time, but he melted down and it took until 12.45 to get him calm enough for sleep...not so good...but he slept for almost 2 hours

E 2.30
A It was Father's Day, so we had plans for an outing to celebrate the day w/ dad;  we left the house around 4.00, and he catnapped in the car, maybe 15-20 min.  Extended playtime pretty well as we were out and about and there were lots of new things to keep his attention.  He got fussy, so we calmed his activities, and he seemed to catch his 2nd wind.  He fell asleep in the car on the way home and took another catnap (10-15min)
E 8.00 bf and began bedtime routine as soon as we got home
S 8.30 in bed asleep by 8.30

E woke at 5.30 this morning!  YIKES!!! 

Does this sound like what's typical for the first day trying to extend A time and go to bed earlier?  Are we on the right track?

[deckchariot]

Carrie - that looks pretty typical for the first day of trying to make a change in the routine - so I would say you are definitely on the right track.  I'm guessing all the activity there in the afternoon may have thrown him for a bit of a loop too - sometimes Abby doesn't sleep so well the night after a big event.  He must have been really tired there in the morning to fall asleep on your shoulder   So that's ok that you couldn't extend that A time.  I'd say keep with your plan to extend A time and move bedtime earlier.  I think you're on the right track!  How's today going?

[cjb]

Yesterday was a great day for DS!!!  We've been pretty successful extending A times 15 min in the morning and as much as 30 min in the afternoon.  His afternoon was happy and fun yesterday, which was a HUGE blessing for all of us since his afternoons have been so rough lately!  He did take a 30 min catnap around 5 in his bouncy seat, but spent the rest of the evening happy and playful.  He got to bed just before 8, so we're backing up bedtime successfully so far.  He still woke up at 5.30, but we managed to get him back to sleep for a little while then he played in his crib on his own until 6, which is our ideal wake-up time.  Anyway...wanted to say thanks for the help and encouragement!  It's greatly appreciated! 

[deckchariot]

oh I'm sooooooooooo glad things went better yesterday!!!  A well rested baby is a happy baby, and I'm glad you got to enjoy a bit of that!  Don't worry about catnaps in bouncy seats - he looks like he's a good independent sleeper for the rest, so he's fine if he needs that little bit to get him to bedtime!  You're doing great!!!!