New and struggling to make the "Third Alternative" (breast AND bottle) work

[jackiesv]

I am such a newbie...     Thank you for all this help!  You are all wonderful and supportive!  My mother (who is a gem in every other respect) keeps saying "Oooh, this is all starting to sound dreadfully familiar!" when I talk to her about my BF-ing issues.  She tried unsuccessfully to BF me and my sister, and ended up switching to formula almost immediately.  I like to hear these stories from other women (like clh, Kate and Kimberly) who have reluctantly supplemented with formula at the beginning, but then managed to get back on track.  It makes me feel like I'm not battling the inevitable.

Okay, so the SNS is on its way, and will arrive sometime tomorrow!  I also got my husband to seek out some blessed thistle supplements to take with my fenugreek.  I am excited to see an improvement.  I'm also hopeful that the slower feed will improve my LO's gas situation...  Even the slowest nipples are a little fast for her, and inevitably she gulps down a lot of air.

This afternoon, against all odds, she was satisfied with two (TWO!) consecutive feedings on just the breast.  She didn't nap for very long in between, but that's okay.

I will report back on how it goes with the new system.  Samuel's Mum, let me know if I can help be a sounding board to other new mums who might be fighting the same battle (as KittysMum has graciously done for me).

[Kimberly®]

Good luck to you we're all here to help support you.

I would never have made it without these ladies.

[Samuel's mum]

Keep us updated.
You'll know better than me how you can support others. Just browse around the boards and offer a hug and a 'mee too!'. You don't have to know anything 'special'. Just being there and offering some kind words can help a new mum (or a not so new one) more than you know. See you around!

[Mum of 3 + 2 stepkids]

Great news

I will report back on how it goes with the new system.  Samuel's Mum, let me know if I can help be a sounding board to other new mums who might be fighting the same battle (as KittysMum has graciously done for me).

I've had a lot of great advice given to me on these boards and i always like to chime in on anyones post that are to do with the things i have been through. I am a MUM like you and all what i know now about bfing is what i learnt on here. So like Emma says (samuel's mum) feel free to pass on what you know to anyone you can.

Please update us as and when

Kate x

[jackiesv]

We picked up the SNS today!  It was a bit of a pain getting it set up the first time (with my little girl fussing at us to Hurry Up Already), but I think the next time will be quicker.  One think I really liked about it was that it forced her to SLOW down.  She gulps from the bottle, but through the little tube she took a single ounce nice and slow, and so had no gas afterwards!

I am already seeing some improvement from some combination of the great advice I've gotten from you wonderful people: the supplements, pumping pattern, feeding strategies, etc.  It is 7:30 pm here, and my LO has only taken 3 oz of formula so far today.  She has ~3 feeds left before we go to bed, and I have 2 oz of breast milk stockpiled, so I'm thinking that we'll likely make it through today on 5 oz of formula, or possibly even 4 oz, down from 6 to 8 oz only a few days ago!

[Samuel's mum]

YAY

[KittysMum]

Great stuff! I was just about to ask how you're getting on, then read your latest post.

That's the only tricky part I find - getting it all taped on while you've a hungry baby in the background shouting at you to hurry up! I've worked out now that I can get dh to distract her for a few minutes while I fill it and put it on - much better than the stress of being screamed at.

I related to your mum saying 'this all sounds so familiar' - why can't they resist comparisons? So annoying. My relatives did the exact same thing. Just because it was my cousin's/sister-in-law's experience that she couldn't feed after 3 months, didn't mean it had to be mine too. I got some very dubious advice from my family when I was struggling. It seems that anyone who's had any sort of experience of a baby in the family, suddenly becomes a lactation expert...

Far better to trust the girls here, I've found. Hope you continue to get on well. And isn't it nice to keep that closeness of breastfeeding even while you're topping up? I like that bit. I think that was a big part of the reason I was resistant to giving her a bottle. (My HV's is still pressuring me to get her to take a bottle by the way, Emma. She refers to the SNS as 'that thing'... I suspect that any idea that's not her own must be a bad one!)

[Mum of 3 + 2 stepkids]

Great News

And god that VAL is such a dumb asssss

[jackiesv]

Okay, a slight setback today.  For some reason, she was very fussy all day.  When feeding, she would suck like mad for about two minutes, and then stop and pull off, or just stay at the breast, nibbling but not actually eating.  If I took her off, she got very upset, giving me all the hunger cues until I put her back on the breast, at which point the pattern would repeat.  We tried giving her pumped milk in a bottle instead; she spat up, but then she acted like she was hungry again.  My husband mentioned that my milk looks thinner today...  Is it too much foremilk that's causing this, do you think?  Or could one of the supplements be giving my milk a taste she doesn't like?  Or is this just a normal day in the life of a baby?  Help!

[Kimberly®]

DD does this too. Its either that she's gassy, and can't get it out, or she's tired but can't settle, or the milk is to slow. At least for my DD thats what it is.

Her hunger signs are similer to her sleepy cries. I usually will pat her back with her over my sholder untill she burbs, sometimes she'll start to drift off so I put her down for a nap. Otherwise I put her back to the breast.

Sometimes its because the milk it to slow. I have a very fast letdown in the begining and most times she's filled with that, but if she isn't then the flow is to slow and I have to do breast compressions. They usually help, if she's really adament that its to slow I switch her to the otherside.

[KittysMum]

Yeah, Kitty does this sometimes too. Obviously you can't see what's happening in there, but I get the impression she enjoys the let down bit as the milk comes gushing out nice and quickly, but then I wonder if it slows or even stops for a bit, as if I'm not using the SNS, she gets a bit stroppy and fidgety, tugging at my nipple (ouch!).

Is she definitely not eating when she's nibbling, do you think? Only I think I made the mistake of thinking that Kitty wasn't eating as she wasn't doing the frantic gulping thing she does at the start, but I wonder if she actually was still eating, only it was perhaps dripping into her mouth rather than flowing? I used to take her off after only 10 minutes or so, as I thought she'd finished, but I think I may have been encouraging her to snack. Not certain, but just a thought.

It's a funny thing breastfeeding, isn't it? Some times it feels wonderful but other times, it's scary as you really have no idea what the baby's getting.

Hopefully another moderator will be along soon to give you some more help. xx

[Samuel's mum]

The 4-6 week mark can be tricky. We are expecting things to settle down but it can also be a time of a lot of change. There is often at least one BIG growth spurt and sometimes after previously being very sleepy and easy to sleep and baby can get fussier and more likely to get overtired. It's also the time when a previously peaceful evening can sometimes become trickier as baby is more wakeful and harder to settle.
So I'm basically saying this might just be baby stuff - connected to overtiredness or overstimulation perhaps.
There are a few other possibilities - it might be that the supplements have actually put you into oversupply and you are creating more milk overall which would mean more foremilk too. She might be struggling with a faster flow at the breast. Does that seem possible? Some people start fenugreek etc and then go 'yikes' and end up having oversupply. Human milk looks different all the time - varies during the day for a start. I don't think you should assume that something is wrong with it. That is very very unlikely. Human milk does look watery and thin especially at the beginning of the feed.
Some babies DO react to fenugreek. This isn't the most common reaction but it can happen. Do her poos seem different? When there is an issue poos are usually green and watery.
How are wet nappies/ diapers? Nice and heavy?

[jackiesv]

The last feed of the day and her overnight feed this morning went a little better in terms of fussing and nibbling.  I don't think it can be oversupply; she was still so hungry afterwards.  Her poos seem normal and she has plenty of wet diapers.  I wonder if it is just a growth spurt, then.  The way she nursed yesterday might also have given her a diet of mostly foremilk (since I couldn't get her to keep actively nursing beyond a few minutes), which I guess might have unsettled her stomach.  Poor little girl!  I will persevere and see if this just resolves itself.  I'm worried this may be some sort of nipple confusion issue (even having read Tracy's opinion on the subject).

[Kimberly®]

Karrigans 6 week growth spurt is what got us on track. I got rid of all the bottles and just nursed like mad and it worked well. It was scaqry though, but maybe a growth spurt might help you too

[jackiesv]

That sounds like a plan, Kimberly.  We have out-of-town guests staying with us tonight, but I will try nursing like a crazy person over the weekend and see if I can get this new development to work for us.