18 month--please help with naps & routine

[skatty]

Hi Siria and Aly 

Teething definitely disrupts naps here, I find it is because her A times are much shorter so if I get her down early she will take a longer nap but if I put her at her normal time she will take a short nap. L only really takes 2 hour naps when teething or ill so I am no expert but maybe if she is teething try the earlier nap. 1hr15 min naps are generally though of as OT naps though I accept them as Leorah sleeps 13-14 hour nights so for her those 2 sleep cycles are enough, if she had a bad night or is especially tired she will sometimes go back to sleep if she wake in her nap but this is usually after 40 mins, if she is very OT she wakes wired and there is no getting back to sleep 

Well it turns out L has a double ear infection which explains everything! Short A times, tantrums, lack of progression in her speech, her blatant ignoring of simple requests! I feel so bad for her as we had her checked out about a month ago because she kept covering her ears and the doc took a quick peak said they looked fine and it was probably referred pain from teething. I don't know why but the other day I had the urge to seek a second opinion as I knew something was up that I couldn't work out, teething even for Leorah doesn't drag on this long with no tooth! This time the doc did a proper exam with the ear pressure thing and she has a lot of fluid in both ears so now at least we know. I would say it was inadvertantly caused by teething, when the molars bumped up she then caught a cold and that lead to the infection, she often gets ill when teething 

Have a good weekend, Katt 

[Sima]

Hi Katt: 
oh poor sweetie..that explains why she is tired and not feeling well!!  Did she has runny nose before ear infection??  I hope she feels better very soon.
My lo got ear infection before eruption of molars and she had runny nose and due to that she got ear infection. 
I hope your lo feels better soon.
It is hard to see lo get sick. 
Many hugs, Siria

[Sima]

Please help!! I am so frustrated...:
Bedtime yesterday 6.30
5.45 wake up
S  11.40-12.45

Really frustrating!!! Can't risk putting her down at 11.30 in case she wakes up at 12.30.
When I put her down she does not fuss, she goes to sleep smoothly.  And at bedtime too.
I putting her to bed at 6.30 or early wake up.
Any suggestions?? 

[jcsmom]

Hi siria,
I wish I had some advice for you, but alas, I am in the very same position as you and on the exact same routine as you. In fact after reading your post, I began to put my DS down at 11:30 instead of later and got a longer nap, 2 hours, for 3 days! But my son is like your DD in the he never replicates the same pattern for more than a few days in a row. So trying to figure out bedtime is always hit and miss for us too.

I can never figure out why he can't sleep for 2 hours when I know he needs it! We get naps anywhere from 1.25 hours to 2 hours (and on the very odd occasion, 2+!). I have even tried putting him down over and over at the same time for his nap and for many nights at 7pm no matter when his nap ended in hopes of setting his nonexistent internal clock with no success  ???I did put him down super early to bed last night after him wakinig at 12:45 and got a 12+ hour night which is a total rarity for us so I am hoping we can get back on track.

I will be following your post in hopes of finding an answer myself!

[skatty]

Hi  Well Leorah was also up from her nap after just 1 hour today so from 12.45 and we put her to bed at 5.30pm amd she was just on the verge of OT but I just didn't want to put her any earlier. Siria have you tried a very early bedtime like 6pm when the nap was bad? The 5.45am wake does sound like she is getting OT. Sorry I didn't see your post yesterday but we were out visiting family. JCs mom, I hope you manage to work something out too, to be honest I sometimes long for days of no naps (yesterday we missed her window again and it took 1½ hours of her playing in her pushchair throwing her dummies out etc  ) at least then I could just tell her she has to have quiet time with books or something but there is no way she can gpo a whole day without a nap yet, 1 hour or less means she gets very fussy in the afternoon.

Siria yes Leorah had a runny nose as her molars bumped up and she caught a cold, we then had a few weeks where she had congested smelling breath but after the doc gave her ears the all clear it never occurred to me that they could be bad 

I hope you both had better luck with naps today 

[Sima]

Katty:
That's exactly how my lo molars popped out: cold, then runny nose, then ear infections, then molars!
I hope Leorah is feeling better. 
When she wakes up at 5.30 in morning it is because we put her to bed early like 6.15 to make up nap--sometimes she sleeps over 11 hours to make up and sometimes she does not and wake up early.
Anyways, I suspect that her eye teeth might be the reason because today went like this:
wake up 5.30
Nap 12-2.15 !!!  GAVE HER TYLENOL before nap
BT: 7:50
Do you know how long eye teeth take to come out?
This little teeth has been poking for days!


JCS Mom:
Thanks for your post!  It is good to know we are not alone!  Soooo frustrating!!  How old is you lo? I do the exact Awake time and like you said one day 1 hour and the next 2 hours.  Maybe that is just the way it is.
When I put her down early at 11.30 one day, she slept 1 hour from a 5.45 wake up. 
Today was great but uncommon:
5.30 wake up
12 nap-2.20! ? Gave tylenol in case eye teeth.
Bedtime 7.45 and went out like a light

I am going to keep nap time at 12 everyday because by putting her early does not guarantee long nap at least right now.
I hope out there someone has some tips regarding this!
Thanks, Siria

[becky1969]

I probably haven't read enough of the responses here, but boy did this sound familiar! We went thru a similar phase at around that same age.

What we ended up having to do was revert to a VERY short AM nap for a few days, to catch up on sleep.  Teething and illness make my bub, and lots of LOs, more tired than usual.  At 18 months old, they are new to 1 nap land, so going back to 2 naps isn't out of the question when they are doing EWs from being OT.  The shorter than ideal naps you're getting are another sure sign of being OT.

When you've got a waking at 5:45, obviously an 11:30 am nap is pretty late (nearly 6 hours of A time). However, I totally get not wanting to put down earlier as that means  waking up from nap around noonish, which makes it a LOOOONG time to bedtime - or a bedtime at a ridiculous 5:30 or something!

The solution is 15-20 minutes of a nap around 4 hours after waking (so, say 9:45 until 10 am).  That will give your LO a chance to get a little nap in to sort of restore their sleep from the missing night.  Then you can give a longer PM nap after a more normal awake time -- say around 2:30.  Then, even if you only get an hour out of them at that point, you've got a wake up of 3:30 which allows for a more normal bedtime of around 7:30.  That will help your EWs go away a little easier! An 11 hour night with a 7:30 bedtime is 6:30, which makes it easier to push to that 11:30-12 nap time. Am I making sense?

Anyway, I know it's hard to go back to 2 naps, especially as most people find that even a 15 minute nap will screw up the chances of a nap for the rest of the day once they are ready for 1 nap.  However, like I said, the NEW-1 napper can revert back to 2 naps when they are sick or teething.  I think it would be worth a try! It worked in our case.  I think it only took 2-3 days before we were back to a normal routine.  He just needed a bit of rest.

[skatty]

HI  Becky, we have also done 2 naps here when EWs have happened but we have to make sure we are in the car or very occassionally in the pushchair and so she nods of (we let her sleep no longer than 15 mins!) but will take her next nap as per her usual routine. There is no way she would go for 2 naps in the usual way but even now we would probably try this if we had EWs, this is a great idea to try and get you back on track Siria 

Now for the bad news, those canines took a long time to come through, I think because they are pointy they have a long way until the gum is completely cut with the width of the tooth, KWIM? Can I ask how long it took for your LO's ears to clear? In hindsight I think Leorah has ended up with blocked ears after previous boiuts of teething followed by illness, it really explains a lot! If your LO was better after meds and took a good nap I think you have found the answer to your problems, she is probably in pain and her A times are probably shorter than normal, at least when you know it's tething you can see a light at the end of the tunnel  I hope they are through quickly 

[RACHPEM]

Gosh, we are doing exactly the same over here too.  We do keep meeting like this Siria, our lo's seem to follow the same pattern.  We had a 4.30am wake this morning , after several days of 5.30am we just keep going round in circles.  Maya seems to also do a consistent 3-4 days before everything goes upside down.  I have some ideas to try, so I will keep you posted. In the meantime any advice is always greatly received.
Rachael xx

[jcsmom]

siria,
My DS is just 16 months. We have been working on one nap pretty much since his first birthday. We were able to get 2 naps for about 2 months or so with a long am and a pm catnap. But eventually that made bedtime too late as he wasn't tired enough for bedtime but got OT in the meantime. So about 2 months ago we moved to one nap. We seem to go from being UT to OT and once OT sets in it takes days to get out of it.
As I mentioned, I moved his nap earlier from 11:45 to 11:15/30 as we were getting OT naps of 1.25 hours. For 3 days we got 2 hour naps. Then since then they have been 1.5 hours and he has been waking miserable so I know he is OT. But like your LO early bedtime means EW most of the time so I hate doing it. But too late bedtime means EW as well.
I think I may try 2 naps for a day or 2 until we can get back on track. He woke at 6:30 this am after 2 NWs so I know he is OT. I am going to try a long am nap and a 15 min catnap this pm. Have you tried that?
skatty, I too often long for the days where he doesn't nap so I don't have to worry anymore!

[Sima]

Hi everyone! Thanks a bunch for your support!  I needed it so much.  I will try the catnap during evening and see what happens! 
Becky, Skatty, Rachael--yes, EW are driving me crazy because her 1 nap is early and then early bedtime with early wake up!  And as I said, naps are 1 hour at times.  Today went like this:
Awake 5.45
Nap 11.40-12.45
Nap 2: 6.15?? and see what happens!
BT: 8  (IS THAT TOO LATE AFTER CATNAP?)

Now I know it is the teeth because two are coming out and also thank you for letting me know not alone!

SKATTY: To answer your questions, Lo took 1 weeks of antibiotics and her ears where clear.
Have not gotten ear infection again though.

[Sima]

JCS mom:
How did it go with pm catnap?
I did the same thing, went like this:
Wake up 5.45
Nap 11.40-12.45
Catnap 6-6.15
BT: close to 8 (DID NOT KNOW WHEN TO PUT DOWN after catnap)

Wondering how you go about it; can you please post schedule with pm catnap to have idea?

By the way, do you suspect any teething with your lo? 

[jcsmom]

Hi siria,
not sure if you read my post or not but we ended up doing an am catnap of 20 mins and a longer nap 2 hours later. He ended up sleeping from 12:20-2:05, so not bad and then 5 hours to bedtime. We used to do a pm catnap but I found that it made bedtime too late, like in your case. Would your LO take an am catnap in the car/stroller for 15min and then a nap at say 12:30. I think in yesterday's case she was OT by 11:40 as that was almost 6 hours A time and short napped you. 6:00 pm should've been bedtime. My DS will make up sleep to a point too so an early bedtime doesn't always work for us if it is not super, super early, like 6:15pm. I find that if I put him down early, 6:30/45 but not quite early enough then the next am EW is due to OT and he would wake early even if I put him down at his normal bedtime KWIM?
Could you try?
6 wake
10-10:15 catnap to take the edge off until a normal nap time
11:30 lunch
12:15/30 nap for 1.75-2 hours
7pm bed?
We did this yesterday and he STTN from 7-6:15! I am hoping to do this all week and hopefully I can move out his bedtime a bit and thus wake time and get a nap in around 11:30/45. Our LOs sound so much alike, it's uncanny!Hope this helps. I am not expert of course so maybe there is a better solution.

[Sima]

JCS mom, thanks for your response!  I have never tried am nap since usually we are out & about. 
She took 2 hour naps two days in a row after 6 hours awake and then today she took 1.10 min.  She is getting her eye teeth clearly but not sure if that is affecting her naps.  However, she does sleep 11 hour w/o any NW. 
The other day I did a pm catnap at 5 hours after nap and it did move her wake up time later- almost 7 and also 11 hour of sleep!
Thank you for suggestions! 

[JSavage]

Wow, these posts sound the answer to our problems!!!
Robert has been waking up between 5:30-6:30am for about a month on and off now. He wakes up whinging and whining and it drives us crazy. We have left him to see if he will go back to sleep but to no avail. Giving him calpol doesn't seem to settle him either since he tends to wake up properly then and not want to go back to sleep.
We have tried wake-to-sleep which didn't seem to work (not habitual) so then have tried early bed times but have got stuck in the morning without taking the catnaps - so will try this, as our new found solution?!!!
The back molars seem to be a factor but are taking for AGES with still no sign of anything coming through, we are all getting a bit tired now.
So just to check, am I correct in thinking that an 18 month old A time is about five hours, give of take half an hour?