Now 10 wk old w/ mysterious sleep cues--p 3 mixing it up with 45 and 55 min naps

[Peek-a-boo]

Okay, my LO is 7 weeks old and is textbook/touchy.  Since switching to the aussie swaddle for nap time, she's doing pretty well falling asleep independently and will sometimes resettle herself if she wakes during transitions. 

Our nap lengths are very inconsistent and I'm really struggling to figure out her sleep cues.  She rarely yawns.  She's too young to rub her eyes, etc.  I've mostly been going by fussiness or snuggliness (when I'm packing her around, she's start to nestle her head into my shoulder like she's trying to go to sleep).  Fussiness is sort of unreliable because that is, of course, her only way of communicating, so I'm not sure if it means sleepy or big brother just pinched me.   

Most days she does a number of short naps (some 45 ish min, some 30ish min) and one long nap or 2-3 hours--in no particular order.  I can't figure out that pattern though!  What A time leads to which length nap??  I'm keeping a log now (trying not to get obsessed, but looking for some rhyme or reason).   I was going toward the short side on A time, but today held trying to wait for clear cues. 

Anyhow, today has gone like this . . .

8:30 wake up
10:00 nap
    10:30--fuss/yelp, resettled herself
    10:45--same
    10:55--same
    11:07--same
    11:45--same
12:25 really awake

Would you interpret this as her being OT?  Hence the broken sleep? 

She sleeps well at night (usually a 10 hour night with one in the middle some where) and doesn't fuss/yelp like this until the last hour or so of sleep, if at all. 

Oh, and I know that a proper BWer would wake her to feed sooner, but, I didn't because when she starts doing short naps (as she no doubt will later today) she works in extra feeds. 

ETA:  She had one perfect nap day last Wednesday.  Her A times where 60-70 minutes.  But, reproducing those A times has not lead to a similarly perfect naps, lol.  I know they change so darn fast at this age . . .

[brenda2]

hi bethany
i'd say she was OT for that nap.  at 7 weeks her A time will be shorter than 1.5 hours.  it may be around 60 or 70 min, especially first thing.  i'd continue to try the shorter A times and see what happens.  have you kept an eye out for the looking away or blank staring to indicate sleepiness?  (or are you too busy chasing DS??   ) my DD did the avoiding eye contact thing a good 10 min before she'd yawn when she was just a bit older than your LO.

[Peek-a-boo]

Thanks Brenda. 

Yeah, it's hard to catch the subtle stares while juggling her and DS, lol.  Will just keep tracking and see if a clearer pattern emerges.  Even with the 90 minutes A time today she still didn't ever yawn.   

[*Nicola*]

Bethany,

Callie was really difficult to read when she was around that age.  I remember posting here wondering if she had less than average sleep needs.  I think it does just take some time to figure it all out, identify cues etc.  Callie started to get really vocal when she was tired but it took me a whiel to realise that was her tired sign and not a playtime sign *eek* 

Could you maybe go by the clock for a few days, keep a note of everything and see if you see any patterns.  I know this is difficult with another bubba about!! But maybe then you can compare things to what happens when you go by her 'signs'.  We ended up clock watching with Callie until we could understand her a bit better.

7 weeks is still so young (said in a non-patronising way) so things will click into place for you.  I think around the 9/10 week mark things started to make a bit more sense to me.

Big ((Hugs)) x

[Peek-a-boo]

Thank you Nicola.

I'm doing pretty well with not getting crazy about her sleep (at least for me, lol) and trusting it will sort out as she matures, but I remain a bit puzzled and clueless about how to interpret what she's doing.  Part of me thinks that she's just on the young side to be predictable--that whole business about day time sleep not organizing until 4-6 months.  I also know there are some things I'm doing that are probably contributing to her disorganization (like not waking her at a set time each morning). 

I also think she's a little on the touchy side and her bodily functions upset her a lot, so there are perhaps variables that wouldn't be in place with a less touchy baby.  My spirited DS was never bothered by his dirty diapers (still isn't much  , but that's a topic for a PT post), but when she needs to poop it's very distressing to her, but then she's fine once she's pooped (and she's def not constipated), but if I don't change her promptly gets crabby--even if it's only a small poop.  Gas really gets her upset and when she gets hiccups (which she often does at the end of A time)--oh dear. 

Anyhow . . . here's what happened this morning:

6:55 She yelped/fussed.  I really don't want morning to start before 7:00 am, so I didn't rush in.  She resettled herself.  Every 10-15 minutes I'd hear a little fuss, but then she resettled until 8:00.

8:00 Up for the day
8:35 Quit making eye contact started staring off over my shoulder. 
8:50 Wind down--very fussy, wouldn't relax, cried when I tried to put her down, so ended up singing and holding her extra and putting her down right after her eyes closed
9:00 In the crib eyes closed
      *9:43 fussing, seemed to resettle
      *9:55 fussing, escalating, went in to try to help her resettle without success;diaper poopy


So I am, of course, confused, lol.  When I saw her quit making eye contact--and it was very pronounced--it was so early that it seemed like it couldn't be a sleep cue.  Yet, by the time I got to the wind down, her fussiness and failure to settle, seemed like she was OT.  So, was thinking that perhaps her final hour of night sleep being broken meant that her first A time (which would generally be the shortest of the day any way) would need be extra short and I missed her window by not acting promptly on the staring at 8:35. 

But then when she made it past the 30 minute mark, I got my hopes up that she hadn't been too OT and we were going to get a good nap.  Then to have her wake near the 45 minute mark made me feel like maybe I'd misread everything and she was really UT.

However, I'm wondering if perhaps the fussing at the 9:43 was just normal sleep cycle transition fussing and that then she pooped or realized that she had pooped in her sleep and that kept her from resettling and resulted in her waking fully.

Any thoughts?  (Besides that I am in fact obssessive and clearly in denial   .)

[brenda2]

well 45 min naps can mean OT or UT, so i'm inclined to agree with you that since her last hour of sleep was broken she needed a really short A time first thing (our first A time was always really really short until after 5 mo) and the avoiding eye contact at 8:35 was a sleep sign and she was OT by the time she actually went down.  i wonder if you had gotten her up at 7 to start her day if it would have been easier to read??  definitely after just a 45 min nap her next A time is going to be extremely short, so if you see the avoiding eye contact again put her down and see what kind of nap you get.  it's going to be a bit of trial and error...and the poopy diapers don't make it any easier!!

[Peek-a-boo]

Thanks Brenda. 

I fed her and she was clearly tired, so after she finished eating I burped her, re-swaddled her and put her back down at 10:30 (30-45 minutes of A time depending on when I consider her nap to have ended--not sure how to count the time when she's fussing/resettling, eventually escalating).  It's now 12:00 and she's still sleeping.    So that's a good thing.   

[Peek-a-boo]

Just to clarify--if I see that distinct stare, turning away refusing to make eye contact, from your experience, you'd say head straight for the wind down?

[Peek-a-boo]

Hmmm . . . so she ended up napping for 3 hours.  When she woke up DS was down for his nap so I was able to really focus on looking for her sleeping cues and I'm left with a big

I ended up starting the wind down right at the 60 minute mark because she was getting fussy and then her behavior during the wind down was very fussy, hard to relax, etc, made it seem like she was OT.  There were some possible sleepy signs around the 35 or 40 minute mark. 

Please yell at me and straighten me out about this, 'kay?  After a solid 3 hour nap, I couldn't believe that at 35-40 minutes she was genuinely ready for another nap.  In BWSAYP there's a sample routine for a 4 week old that shows LO going into the crib at 75 minutes and the nap starting at the 90 minute point.  So, I know, I know  --it's a sample, it's a routine not a schedule, watch the baby not the clock, but that's sitting in the back of my mind and I know it's influencing how I interpret her sleep cues.  I just can't believe she would only need 35-40 minutes after a three hour nap. 

Sorry I'm rambling now.  Will be interested to see how long this nap turns out to be. 

[Peek-a-boo]

Well--it was 30 minutes long and she clearly needed more, so I should have responded to those early cues.  Will try again tomorrow. 

[brenda2]

hi
i know tough to put them to bed when they've only been up such a short time!! and it's hard to see the subtle cues, but i would head straight for the wind down if i saw the avoiding eye contact.  with my DD this cue was very clear and it was followed by yawning about 10 min later which if i waited for the yawns was way too late.  so i'd go with the short A times for now.  it won't be too long before she can handle more.  she may be catching up from a few days of bad/short naps too so that may be why her A time is so short right now and once she's caught up it may be a little longer.  i think usually the 90 min A time isn't until they're closer to 3 mo, before then it's 45-60 min usually.  but you're right, watch the baby not the clock (i was and still am such a  clock watcher...but it's good to watch the cues first to learn about what her A time is  and then you can watch the clock!)

[debo620]

Brenda,

can I just ask--we are quite often having 40min naps---the first nap I can ususally extend easily, but it gets harder and harder as the day goes on..
what seems to happen..is that he'll fall back asleep but only 10min at a time--this will go on for 40min and then I'll give up...
but I never know how much A time after that?

[Peek-a-boo]

Okay--today started off great.

She decided to yawn today, just to keep me on my toes. 

So it went like this . . .

7:40 Wake up
     (45 min A time)
8:25-10:10 Nap (1.75 hours)
     (50 min A time)
11:00-12:40 Nap (1.5 ish hours)


And then the dishwasher repair man came and DS needed lunch and if there were cues I missed them and so I tried to put her down at 50 minutes.  I don't know if she was UT or OT or what, but it clearly was not her sleep window, lol, and she did not settle and got way OT and is now in her crib, but I doubt it will last.

Feeling good about this morning and seeing her cues and getting decent naps as a result. 

Will try again tomorrow. 

[*Nicola*]

Bethany, just dropping off some (((Hugs))) ... sounds like you are making headway

Boo hiss @ dishwasher man messing things up!

[brenda2]

yay!  they do get easier as they get just a touch older and their cues start being easier to read.  sounds like you're making headway!  i found it really hard too at that age.  their window is just sooo small.  if you're even off by 5 min it can really make or break it, 5 min is just such a long time in their little world!    luckily as they get older the window gets longer.  her A time may stretch out now too as she's getting some longer sleeps in and may be getting over a little bit of OT. (but by longer it may be just 55 min now )  they do keep you on your toes!

deb - there's a sticky in the naps FAQ section untitled "what are A times and how do they fit into EASY".  have a read through it.  i can't seem to post a link just now.  at 2 mo his A time is going to be really  short.  like bethany is finding out, even just 45 or 50 min, and especially short if after a short or broken nap.  can you see his cues at all?