Ever shortening A times...

[skatty]

The last week we have had nap hell with Leorah, 2 days of no naps and others of 2 hrs to sleep  She is sleeping fantastically at night, around 14 hours so I presumed she needed a longer A time and less night sleep but now realise she was going so far into OT that she couldn't sleep. Today we decided to cut right back and put her down at 4 hours so she would have a chance to winddown without getting OT but by 3½ hours she started getting ratty and squealy so we quickly changed her nappy etc and got her down and she finally took a nap but it took 40 mins for her to sleep still  She has had some trouble with her molars but night sleep is unaffected or maybe even better and she has fluid in her ears which I know is causing her discomfort so could that be the reason for the short A time? I just can't work it out at all, I mean she is almost 22 months and only had a max A time of 4hrs 45  but under 4 just seems ridiculous! The wierd thing is that she can now manage more A time after her nap than before, it was always the other way around. Of all the threads on the sleep boards I have never come accross this before. I have tried meds before the nap and it makes no difference and she isn't waking at night so she can't be in that much pain  The only thing that makes me think it's her ears is that she fell asleep the other day and woke after 7 mins screaming and when I went to investigate she had her heands over her ears, also she often shakes her head like crazy when she is trying to get to sleep in the day. The shortening of the A times started at the end of May, her molars bumped up, then she got a cold with blocked sinuses, this has lead to the ear problems and here we are this last week with nap problems. Since May she was going down for her nap after 4hr15 mins and would windown for up to half an hour so when it turned into 2 hours to sleep I presumed her A time needed increasing again. We are going to a doc on Friday who does some alternative treatment to drain the ears so hopefully they will be clear soon but is this the reason for these short A times? The fluid in her ear will have been there since the cold back in May. Please help if you can I am so confused and worried 

Oh and also today I set my alarm early and went and sat in her room to see if she was waking early and not making a sound. At 7 she sighed and took hold of her lovey and turned and went back to sleep for another 40 mins, she was definitely asleep as I was shining my phone in her face so that isn't the problem.

[Vicku]

Hi there Katt,
I'm sorry you're having these nap problems and that Leorah is still in pain with her ears and teething. I don't know if I have any great advice to give, but I thought I'd send you some hugs and supportive encouragement as I know how hard it is when they go through periods like this. So {{{hugs!}}}
My fist thought was that paerhaps her ear fluid is making her teething sympthoms worse and/or the other way round. But as you say her night sleep is unaffected I'm not sure She is having A LOT of nighttime sleep, 14 hrs is more than Lois has in 24 hrs. She sleeps like 10.5 hrs at night plus 1.5-2 (on occasion 2.5) in the pm. Just shows how different their needs can be eh. Well, I've noticed that Lois gets a shorter A time tolerance when unwell for definite.
You don't think she could be getting close to trying to drop the nap do you? Cos of getting so much night sleep? I know you said she seems OT though and it would be too early for that. I'm just kind of thinking out 'loud' now to try and figure it out... I can see that you must be frustrated and worried.
It's hard knowing if it's to do with her ears or not so I hope that doctor can help her.
After 14 hrs of sleep it does sound a bit odd that she can only handle a 4 hr A time, so I don't know hun... I hope someone will come along and give better advice! It sounds like she's either OT or UT. I don't know any toddler her age that sleeps 14 hrs at night and I think 12-14 hrs in 24 is average, so I still lean towards guessing she's UT but unwell
Sorry I have no better advice babe, but I'm thinking of you and hoping it gets better soon!
xxxxxxxxxxxxx:-*

[skatty]

Hi Vicku and thanks for the reply, your thoughts are exactly the same thoughts as I had but she is definitely getting OT for the nap and today proved it as we had her down much earlier and she slept for 1hr15 and woke up miserable so I am sure she is unwell in some way, I just can't work out what way, teething, ears  I know she gets a ridiculous amount of sleep but she has been like that since 1 nap, I swear she is still catching up from the lack of sleep in her first year!! Before this she would do a 13 hour night and a 1hr20/30 min nap most days. As you know she is also very energetic so she seems to go at life full throttle and then need some time to recuperate, unfortunately that window is very small. I am ever expectant of her dropping her sleep needs but as of yet it is not happening, maybe when she has all her teeth and her ears are clear? I thought she was getting ready to drop the nap all week but it was DH who pointed out how fussy she is getting every morning before her nap so that's why we thought we'd try the early nap and it worked although we still got her down a bit too late  I can't believe the first day she skipped her nap I was happy because I thought we were at the stage when the odd day of no nap wouldn't effect her but it was followed the next day with wired behaviour when put down for her nap so we went out in the car and got a nap there and the next day DH ended up taking her out for a walk and she woke up thoroughly miserable at 35 mins  My plan was to try and push bedtime later so she is more tired for the nap the next day but now I realise this isn't the problem, she didn't even want stories tonight just wanted to go to bed at 6pm, if she has less overnight sleep at the mo' it will hardly be worth getting her out of the cot in the morning!! I wonder if the doc will be any help on Friday, whenever I have bought up her huge sleep needs to our doc she just tells us to count our blessings and points out that she is tired just watching her lol! She has had increased sleep when she is ill or teething before but at those times we have known what was wrong and she has needed pain relief so I am so puzzled, perhaps a molar will break through and explain everything, I just hope there isn't another bug lurking  I am sure there must be someone out there whose LO has had the same but I have never read about it., the only other real difference in her is that she is suddenly very well behaved! She is holding our hands more when out walking and staying calm in shops, can sit and play quietly with her crayons and basically shocking us with the change! I have wondered if it is developemental as I have seen with my friends kids they seem to suddenly have a huge developement spurt when they are around 2, I suppose she could also be having a growth spurt, I'm thinking aloud now! That is a good point they sleep much more then don't they and she is eating really well at the mo', she has grown a lot recently anyway though so maybe not 

Crikey I am sorry waffling on, I think I will just go with the early nap and see what happens, if it works great, if not I will have to change something! Hopefully the treatment she will start on Friday will help.

Thanks Vicku, I didn't expect any magical answers but it is nice to have some support 

[skatty]

Aaargh! Leorah woke up screaming her head off around 2am last night, it must be her ears which I hear can cause this or she had a bad dream which can happen when she is OT, I am guessing ears because she woke this morning witha  sharp scream, roll on the docs tomorrow  Up at 7.20 am , I am going to try and put her down for her nap at 11am and see what happens!

[lesorl]

Oh Katt, I'm sending you tons of (((hugs)))... it does sound like Leorah is not well.  Was she up for long at 2am?  I don't know how to advise you, but early bedtimes tend to help us if it's OT. 

Thinking of you-
Leslie

[skatty]

Thanks Leslie, I have nothing to complain about compared to you but thanks for the hugs  I am pretty sure it's her ears now because she has been covering them all day, she was asleep by 4hrs20 today so at least we finally realised she's OT not UT, I agree early bedtimes all the way! I am nervous about tomorrow as we have a docs appointment at 9.30 which is a 50 min drive each way and I have no idea about L's A times at the mo', usually if she was spending that long in the car I'd extend the time but I have no idea what to do at the moment, I feel completely clueless 

[lesorl]

Katt- just checking in to see how Leorah's doctor appointment went.  I'm thinking about you girls-

L.

[elmarie]

{{HUGS}}} Katt.  Hope L is feeling better-I'm fighting my own naps monsters at the moment so know how you feel 

[skatty]

Thank for asking Leslie, you are sweet! It's unbelievable Leorah has no fluid in the ear anymore, we had 4 days of sun and they dried out, yipee! We could hardly believe it but the morning we went I said her name in a normal voice while she was busy playing and she turned around to me straight away and DH and I both said "she can hear!" at the same time so it happened so suddenly! This doesn't explain the bad naps and 2 nights of screaming in the early hours though  The doc said her body could be fighting something. Yesterday she was biting a lot of the day and she is eating nothing so it could be down to teeth, her A times do usually shorten but I don't remember them being this short. Yesterday we got Leorah down at 4hrs20 which is later than intended but she had spent almost 2 hours in the car and it was too late, she was completely wired and DH had to take her out walking and she once again slept less than an hour  I gave her ibuprofen before bed last night and did hear her cry and resettle herself around 3am and then she was awake at 6.50am so an improvement but still not great, today I will get her down for her nap very erly and hope for the best!

Elmarie, how are you? What kind of troubles are you having? How is Courteney? She must be so grown up now 

[Vicku]

Hey Katt,
I'e not been on here since I last wrote. Been really hot weather so been out with DD and DH to an animal park and yesterday to the beach. Are you also having hot weather in Denmark?

I'm really pleased the fluid in her ear has cleared! She must have worked hard to hear things and maybe that also has contributed to her OT? It has been going on for a while so... It sounds like she's in pain from something at night and the molars are quite possible as you said they were on their way. Also if she needs more sleep when ill/teething then together with having gone through the ears thing it's not so strange if she's OT bless her. I would go with trying to get as much sleep in as possible for a while and early nap and early bed, as you said. At least these are the last sets of teeth eh... Lois hasn't started teething molars yet and I'm dreading it already
I really hope there's nothing else going on but as the doc said she might be fighting something like a cold or something. Time will tell... Stay strong and patient hun. Maybe as much 'quiet time' as possible will help her recover, she likes books right? Also a bit extra DVD watching might not be so bad... gives her little body some rest at least.

Huge hugs to you both!!!!!!! xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

[skatty]

Hi Vicku, yes we are also having fantastic weather, that's why her ears dried up so suddenly, I am so happy  Well I think I have finally worked out what has lead to the OT and that is a complete lack of predictibility in L's routine and OS!! I am sure the ears and the teething are not helping but Martin has been home for 4 weeks and we have literally been out and about everyday, even L's morning walk in the pushchair has turned into a walk in the forest on foot and then there has been the amusement park, beach, petting zoo etc. The fact that she has a wail of a time means it skipped my notice that it has all been too much but it also explains why she is so clingy to me at times at the mo', I think she misses our old easy going days. I can't believe I am saying it but I think it will be good for Martin to get back to work so we can get in a normal routine again, even our poor dog is out of sorts as she was used to our walks when L wakes up but quite often we have been off in the car for a action packed afternoon! Today I had L down at just before 4 hours and she was asleep after 35 mins for 1hr15 but woke very tired, I am going to try and give her a few quieter days now as my mum and brother come on Wednesday and visitors always cause excitement! It makes so much sense now, I could kick myself, some BW I am eh? lol! We have just had a few hours in the garden with the paddling pool and now she is watching a dvd and she is so happy and so am I as I am on here with a cup of coffee 

Hugs to you and Lois 

[elmarie]

Hi Katt, glad to hear that L is feeling better.  We are doing very well.  C is starting to drop her nap (way to early) but are trying to cope with it.  At least it is not effecting her night sleep 

Speak to you soon 

[skatty]

Oh no Elmarie, that is early  I must admit it wouldn't bother me too much as long as L stayed and it didn't effect her night sleep but recent times have shown she can't handle it at all  At least they can just have quiet time when they drop, will C have quiet time?

Big hugs from me and L xx

[elmarie]

Oh yes, even is she drops the nap now I will leave her in her cot everyday for quite time.   She naps yesterday (2nd time this week), so I will offer the nap even if she doesn't nap for a lon time to come.

[skatty]

OMG I just want to scream, L woke at 6.25am this morning after crying out NW's from bedtime until 10pm when we gave her meds. I decided I wouldn't put her down until 11am which sounds reasonable doesn't it but by quarter to she was so tired I changed her nappy and put her outside and guess what? Too late and she was acting wired for over an hour so DH has taken her out walking again  I have looked at her naps for the last 10 days and if I put her down 3.35 mins and 3.50 mins awake time she settles within 40 mins and takes a 1hr15 nap any later and we have had either no nap or an extremely short nap (7 mins, 35 mins  )after taking up to 2 hrs to sleep! What is going on?? She seems to be OT but this is crazy! Tomorrow we are going to DH's nan's for the day and it is usually hard getting her to sleep there so I am wondering if I should not bother putting her down and just hope she will sleep on the way home and then get a really early night and hope she does one of her 14 hour stunners. I have family coming over on Wednesday for 4 days and I just can't take L having such bad sleep when we have people here 

What is going on with these crazy A times? Her NWs suggest teething but she doesn't seem to be especially bitey etc when awake, can the molars really effect naps that much? She only ever seems to have Ews when she is teething so I am kind of hoping it is just down to teeth and we can get back on track eventually 

Elmarie I am glad C will nap some days, I have read around 2 some Lo's start dropping their nap and then start taking them again so I hope that happens for you, at least she can handle it, if L could handle it I would go with the flow but as usual she has ended up in a mess! I guess I can't complain as this is the first major blip in 10 months since transitioning to 1 nap. I have to watch those evening A times too, she woke from her nap so early yesterday that I stretched her to 5 hours which isn't a good idea when she is OT, she could well be in bed before 5pm tonight