9 hours of Sleep a Night

[Nani]

My ds just turned 2 years old and he recently started sleeping through the night.  We have had several sleep issues from the beginning. 

We were away on holidays and had a time change to deal with upon our return.  It took him about 2 weeks to start sleeping through the night again, but it is not consistant.  I think I can deal with the wake ups (but only until the new baby comes), but he is only sleeping 8.5 - 9 hours a night and his nap ranges from 2 - 2.5 hours. 

I looked at a sleep schedule posted on BW to see how much children this age should be sleeping at it stated that they should have 1 nap for 1.5 hours and they should sleep 11.5 hours a night. 

Here is what my ds day looks like.

6 am wake and milk
7 am breakfast
8 - 10:30/11ish activity
11 or 11:30 am lunch
12 - 2 or 2:30 pm nap
2:30 - 5 pm activity
5 or 5:30 pm dinner
7 pm bath and wind down
7:30 - 8 pm storytime - bed, but does not fall asleep 8:30 - 9 pm

It take myself or my dh 1 - 1.5 hours until he falls asleep each night.  Toward the end of that time, we are very frustrated.

We have tried several things to wind him down at night, but he bangs his feet on the bed, the wall, or me.  He has to get every last bit of energy out before he goes down for the night.  It usually take a very long time for him to go to relax, calm down and go to sleep.

How do I get him to sleep longer and fall asleep faster.  I have also tried to shorten his nap, but he still only sleeps 8.5 - 9 hours a night.  Before our vacation, he slept 10 hours, with a 2 - 2.5 hour nap, but we still had the same issue of him trying to go to sleep each night.

Please help!!!

[RACHPEM]

Believe me I am far from an expert on sleep, but is it possible he is OT? as going away could have disrupted his pattern a little.  How is he in the day? could you putting him down slightly earlier at night for a short while? as I say take with a pinch of salt as I cant work my own lo out but sometimes it is easier to spot with others.  Hope someone else can give you something more solid.
hang in there,
Rachael x

[Nani]

I don't know if he is OT.  His wake time from wake up is 6 hours and it usually takes no more than 10 - 15 minutes to put him to sleep for his nap.  His wake time is 5.5 - 6 hours after his nap, but it takes a lot longer to put him to bed and then he only sleeps the 9 hours at night. 

Suggestions??? Solutions???

[becky1969]

Definitely sounds OT to me! The taking a SUPER long time to fall asleep at night (in contrast to nap times) and only sleeping 9.5 hours is classing OT behavior.

The solution, believe it or not, is an ealier bedtime.  Some kids need more A time in the AM, less in the PM.  So don't be afraid to offer only 4.5-5 hours A time in the PM.  It seems to work! My son is on this bizarre schedule where he's waking at 9 am, taking nap at 2 (for 2 hours), wakes at 4 pm, and then is back to sleep by 8 pm! Bizarre, but it's working for him.  Prior to this, we were trying an earlier nap time, and all that got us was short naps. We tried a later bedtime, but all that got us was an HOUR to fall asleep. Oy.  At 8, he'll fall asleep almost instantly (at least that's what I assume, because I never hear a peep from him after I kiss him goodnight and leave the room).


I think I'd try having him ready for sleep by 7:30 pm, which means in crib by 7:15.  So, start your bath at 6:30.  Heck, skip the bath for a night or two if it gets him in bed earlier. See how taht works.  Actually, at our house we do baths during the day because baths tend to get my son all revved up.  I know it probably makes your palms sweat to think of putting him to bed earlier, but I have a feeling it will make a HUGE difference.  My son is 2.5, and he falls asleep best for bedtime after 4.5 hours A time, which means we do our books and wind down at 4 hours A time.

Give it a try! The worst thing that can happen is he throws a LONGER party in his bed! 

And, any chance he's got the 2 year old molars coming in? A little motrin before bed may help that.  Teething can also cause kids to be more tired than usual, which may be why you're seeing OT behavior at bedtime.  If sleep has been an issue for you all along (which it sounds like it has), I have a feeling that you've been 'blessed' as I have been with a child who is VERY sensitive to being OT. If so, I think the earlier bedtime will be super effective!

Good luck!

[Nani]

Thank you for your input!  We have tried to put him to sleep earlier and the first night I started bedtime routine at 6:45, it still took 45 minutes to put him down put he slept 11 hours that night.  Then the next night bedtime started at 7:15, still with a 40 minute stuggle time, and he slept 10 hours, but woke in the middle of the night, not once but twice. 

This has actually been the case the past few nights, he wanders into our bedroom demanding some milk.  Usually we bring him back to bed especially if he's only been sleeping for a few hours, but when the second wake up occurs (5 am), he wants milk and will really wake if he doesn't get it. 

I am still looking for any suggestions with him not sleeping enough during the night, but I seem to have a new problem with an earlier bedtime.

[becky1969]

This is great information! This tells me that earliar bed WILL work (you got 11 and 10 hours when you tried), but that he still isn't in bed soon enough, hence the long time to fall asleep, NWs and still iffy sleep.  Notice that when  you moved bedtime forward from 6:45 to 7:15, you got 1 whole hour LESS of sleep.  The 40 minutes may go down if you go even earlier than you just did.  I know that may seem scary, but my son has had 5:45 pm bedtimes before in an effort to battle the OT regime we were in!

The thing to remember is that this really early bedtime is NOT permanent: it's merely a measure to get us thru this OT cycle, and get him the better sleep he needs to help him not be so wound up at bedtime.  Also, it typically takes 3 nights of a change before their body responds 100%. So, the fact that you had initial success of him sleeping longer is extremely encouraging! The 2nd night you already slipped by 30 minutes later in bedtime, and had less sleep as a result.  30 minutes is a ton when you are dealing wiht an OT cycle.

The waking at 5 is a product of being OT as well, so while it is very frustrating now to have him wanting milk that early, it is temporary until we get enough sleep in the little guy.  What I would be tempted to do is give him a sippy cup with milk, and tell him "It is not time to get up yet. Drink your milk, and when you hear mommy's alarm go off, then it is time to get up." Set your alarm for 6 am, and then go get him up for the day at that point.  IF he fusses, you go in and remind him "It isn't morning time yet. Mommy's alarm will ring when it is time to get up."  Of course, if he falls asleep after the milk, that's great! Turn off your alarm and try to get some shut eye! But I'm thinking he won't sleep until AFTER we get a few more nights of better sleep under his belt.

New plan: start bedtime routine at 6 and see where that gets you.  Be super strict about that! Treat it as an experiment, and note any changes in sleep that happen.  Keep this up for 3 nights before deciding it's not working.  But I have a feeling after 3 nights you might see some definite improvements.  I know you saw some NWs with the earlier bedtime, but that is because he is starting to get closer to the right amt of sleep.  Those NWs will disappear once we kill this OT cycle.  That will just take a few nights of getting 11+ hours of sleep.

This stuff is SO tough! Sleep deprivation is hard for kid and mommy.  It *will* get better -we'll work it thru.

[Nani]

Wow!  6 pm for a bedtime!  That's early...  My dh is away this weekend, if he heard this he would think it's a crazy idea.  But I will try it.  My concern is that he wakes from his nap anywhere from 2 - 2:40 pm, so how will he be ready for bed at 6 pm? 

Last night my dh gave him a haircut at 7 pm, we had a bit of a discussion and told him he needed to get to bed a.s.a.p., he didn't listen, then he decides that he needs a bath, so all said and done, he was sleeping at 8:30 p.m. I was upset with the late bedtime, but he did sleep through the night, but woke at 5:30 a.m., so back to the 9 hours of sleep.  He got his milk and eventually fell back asleep, but only for 45 - 50 minutes.

I have two night without my dh to try the 6 p.m. bedtime, and I will see how it works, but again, my concern is the nap and MUCH shorter A time.  Do I then put him to nap earlier, say 11:30 a.m.?   

[Nani]

Tonight was the first night I tried earlier to put him to bed, we started bedtime routine at 6:15, in bed a 6:30 and it was just after 7 pm he was ready to be completely asleep, but then he got this burst of energy and tossed, talked, and played for 20 minutes.  I don't know what got into him, but he eventually fell asleep by 7:30ish.  We will see how it goes tonight? 

Last night was an aweful night for me, he was up at 11:30 and then again at 4 am.  Then was completely awake at 6:30 am.  I barely slept last night, so hopefully tonight will be a better night. 

[Nani]

Saturday night, after a bedtime of 6:30 and asleep by 7:30, he woke not once or twice, but 3 times.  The first time was at 9:30, the second 11:30 and the last at 4 am.  Is this still due to overtiredness?  However, it didn't take him long to go back to bed, but suprising he woke at 6:30 am. So 11 hours of night sleep, but 3 NW's.  I do see change from an earlier bedtime, but will the NW's end???  Today I did a shorter A time in the morning, only 5 hours and he was up in bed for a nap at 11:30 am and he was asleep by 11:45.  Hopefully this will work and this vicious cycle can be overcome.

[becky1969]

It's probably going to get worse before it gets better.  Just stick with this new routine for several days and see what happens.  If it doesn't fix the NWs, then we'll work a different technique for those.  But I have a suspicion that a few days of this will change the whole thing around.  Hang in there! I know it's hard not to want to see instant results, but it takes awhile for their body clock to change.  ((((HUGS)))))

[Nani]

Thank you so much for all your advice and feedback.  It is very much appreciated

Last night I put him to bed by 6:15 and he was sleeping by 7:15.  However, what was interesting was that he initially showed all the signs that he was going to fall asleep within 10 - 15 minutes, but then he gets these bursts of energy and does not want to settle.  He almost seems as if he wants to fight that the going to bed stage.  He has done this week while observing his falling asleep behaviour. 

So the good news, he slept from 7:15 to 2:15 am without any wake ups or cry outs.  It did take him a while to fall back asleep again (about 1 hour), but then slept till 6:30 am.  So about 10 hours of sleep for the night.

Today he went down for his nap at 12:30 pm and woke at 3 pm, it is now 6:45ish and he will be going to bed now.  I am trying to be strict, but it's hard when he doesn't show any signs of being OT.   

We'll see how tonight goes.

Thanks again for all your help. 

[becky1969]

The burst of energy before falling asleep is interesting.  We might need to work on his wind down before bed.  Could you provide a detailed description of what wind down is like?  Including at what stage you leave the room.


The long nap is nice!  Let's just keep going and see what turns up, OK? If I've led you wrong, then we'll take a different approach.  I just think a few more days is necessary. He's doing better than 9 hours per night already, which was your original problem! Let's see if a few more days of this will get rid of those awful NWs, OK?

[Nani]

Our wind down is as follows, as we usually go upstairs we say goodnight to objects surrounding us, every other night a bath, brush his teeth, wash face, sing a song or two or a read a few books, drink milk, and say prayers.

He has been in his own bed for about 3 months and it was his decision to go there.  Ever since our trip at the beginning of July for 3 weeks, he has become so dependent on one of us being in the room with him.  So myself or my dh leave when he is minutes from falling asleep or already sleeping. 

Last night was a good night, it still took him 45 minutes or so to go to sleep, but he slept from 7:45ish to 5 am without any NWs and then I came to him and he went back to bed until 6:15.  So 10.5 hours last night, it's getting better, but NWs still occuring as well as it's taking long getting to bed.

I will still try to keep up with earlier bedtimes and shorter A times in the afternoon before bed.  I believe that is working