Staying with baby as he falls asleep?

[suevcameron]

Hi - I have a 9 week old who finds napping hard (but I think its due to overstimulation or OT and I'm working on that, but usually requires pat/shush) and sleeps well at night. I read in the BW that you should stay with your baby for 20 minutes when you put them down - I have been doing this - sometimes my lo seems asleep before this and sometimes he still seems very awake. What should I be doing?
Does the 20 minutes include pat/shh time?

Also - as I am having trouble with naps which sometimes are 40 or 45 minutes long - am not sure - at what point should I be timimg his sleep from?

Thank you
Sue

[Leia and Sabrina's Mom - Jessica]

Funny that you wrote that second part. I was just thinking the same thing. My LO is down for a catnap right now - but I know because of my baby monitor (video)...she wasn't sleeping for the first 25 minutes that she was in there. I would hear a peep or two as well. I don't use it to make me crazy and constantly check in on her...but just to see that if she is crying...it is the mantra kind and nothing is wrong. I was just debating on when to wake her up...I am adding a half hour to the time since I know she was in there fussing and pooping for the first 25 minutes. My point is...maybe if you don't already have one...and video monitor would help you gauge when your LO is actually asleep. However, if you think that it will make you neurotic...then don't do it. Just a thought.

[brenda2]

hi
staying with them through the jolts for the first 20 min is when you are doing the sleep training and trying to teach them how to go to sleep and stay asleep.  as they get better at it you gradually reduce how much help you are giving them.  if you can put them down and pat shh until their eyes close and then they don't wake up after this you can leave the room.  some babies have big jolts after they have gone to sleep (eyes closed) at 10 and 20 min that will wake them up and that is what she is referring to with this suggestion.  you wouldn't necessarily be patting and shhing this whole time, depends on your LO...i guess you may be or just holding down to get through the jolts.

the goal is to put them down awake, no pat shh and leave the room for them to do the rest.  obviously it may take a while to get there...

i always timed sleep from when her eyes closed and she looked asleep.  later on when i wasn't in the room when she went to sleep i timed from when i didn't hear her anymore.

[suevcameron]

Gosh - I really do feel like I'm doing this all wrong!! So I should be counting the 20 mins from when his eyes close? Sometimes he fusses for ages - about half an hour or longer - does that count as him starting to fall asleep? If he is fussing like that should I be pat/shushing? or leave him to it? He never goes into his cot quietly - even if I start his winddown straight after eating!!

Heehee Leia - I think my DH would go crazy if I bought a video monitor - he thinks I'm obsessed as it is!!

[kateboundy]

I had the same thing with my little one. She used to jump at 10 minutes so I just used to stay with her (with her in her moses basket) until that happened and then she would be fast asleep...  I then moved it so I would get her calm and then leave the room but leave the door open and stay near the door (basically tidy up her bath stuff) and that comforted her enough..  then one day I just walked out and closed the door and she was fine... 

Just a thought.. 

[Leia and Sabrina's Mom - Jessica]

Heehee Leia - I think my DH would go crazy if I bought a video monitor - he thinks I'm obsessed as it is!!

Oh I am totally obsessed! My DH doesn't even listen to me anymore. Is that bad?

Just wait until I have to go back to work on Saturdays...he makes fun of me now but wait until he is on this forum annoying the crap out of all of you! =)

Good luck Sue!

[brenda2]

if he's just fussing you can leave him...how long is his A time now?  maybe he's not ready for sleep.  do you want to post your routine.

[suevcameron]

Hiya
Thanks for your ideas.
He's 9 weeks old - I have been breast feeding him for 20-30 mins then giving him about 10-15 activity. I have tried to make his activity less exciting and more calm to not overstimulate him. I think perhaps I'm not winding him down properly - he doesn't seem to get drowsy and just cries but I think it might be because I'm just putting him straight down - thats not right is it? I tried the 4 S but as soon as i sit with him he starts crying. However, he was just crying hysterically and stood with him, played a couple of nursery rhymes and rocked him. He was quiet immediately. I then rocked him silently for a while and his body relaxed. I then put him in the crib, awake, but more drowsey than normal. He cried for a few seconds and I pat/shhed him and he found is thumb and seemed to go to sleep. Should I be doing this everytime? Sorry if this is a really obvious question - as I'm writing it I feel like it is. I assume babies don't just get drowsy like I think I'm expecting!!

This is my average routine:

0730 Awake and feed
0805 up to room to do a little quiet activity - singing, talking, nappy, change
0815 start to put him down
0830 Sleep - but tends to wake up 30-40 mins later
1030 Feed
1105 Activity
1115 Sleep
1330 Feed
1405 Activity
1415 Sleep
1630 Feed
1715 Catnap
1800 Bath
1830 Feed
1900 Sleep
(often wakes at 0300-0330 for feed)
0730 Awake

[brenda2]

hi
i think your first A time is a bit too short which leads to a short nap because he's not tired enough to take a longer nap.  at 9 weeks first thing he should be able to tolerate about 1 hour 10 min A time (from when he wakes up to when he's asleep again)  but after that your A time is too long (because he woke up early from his nap and isn't as well rested as after a long nap but you didn't adjust the A time to shorter) which will make him OT and cause another short nap.  i think if you get the A time right it is going to be much easier for you to get him down for naps.  if he is UT or OT he will fight the nap and it will be harder.  especially since he is so young and hasn't figured out how to go to sleep yet.  here is a link to explain how to adjust A times:

http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=128419.0

do you know his temperament?  some babies prefer shorter vs longer A times.  for the winddown you can fiddle with it to discover what works best for him.  at that age i usually did some quiet activities leading up to the winddown then into the room to have some stories or rocking and songs and then swaddle, maybe some more rocking/slow dancing/ humming etc and then into bed when starts to looks drowsy for some shh pat and then leave when eyes start shutting.  here is a link:

http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=64277.0

he is still really young to have it figured out.  i think your best bet is to get the A times right and then the rest will fall into place more easily.  keep trying and he'll get it, sounds like you're on the right track.

[suevcameron]

Thanks - you may be right- I think my winddown is the problem and I've been shortening is A time thinking that was the problem! Experiment, experiment!! I will get it right eventually.
I'll try extending activity time - he just doesn't seem to get drowsy himself - he just starts crying once he's overtired - but that maybe because I'm doing overstimulating activities with him and not winding down.
Temperament wise - I think he's mainly text book but a little spirited.

[brenda2]

spirited bubs tend to do better with short winddowns and get overstkimulated easily.  keep the activity and stimulation to a minimum and do winding down activities leading up to nap/bedtime (slow dancing, looking at garden/trees etc, walk around the house in the sling) and then just a short winddown in the nursery once he looks tired and into bed.

[suevcameron]

Hiya
Have tried extending his Activity this morning but I think I extended it too far and he started crying. Yesterday it worked well. We'll have to wait and see whether he wakes in 45 mins!!!
He just doesn't seem to get drowsy at all - he just starts crying...he only gets drowsy when I do a really calming winddown... I guess thats the answer - I'll keep working on it.
Thank you so much for your advice!