2 year old still waking in the middle of the night

[onemodestdiva]

Hi all,
I have been a BW mom for 4 years and this one has be flumoxed! 
My second DD is 29 months and sleeping in a room with her sister.  She has been in the same room with her for about 6 month.  We tried a bunk bed with disaterous results so now they are in seperate beds and that made TONS of difference. 
Sorry I will start at the begining...
She goes to bed at about 7.  She wakes at between 6 and 7 regardless of when she goes down.  She dropped her nap completely about 4 months ago when I found that if I put her down for one then she would be up until 10. 
We stagger bedtime with her and my 4 year old DD because she is way to interested in playing with her older sister rather than sleeping. 
We tried just letting her scream in a locked room when she woke up and it always seemed to be fixed but the bunkbeds caused additional problems and so the waking would be "fixed" for about a week and then she would wake again. 
When she wakes up she usually wants water which she has access to by her bed at all times...she just wants someone to hand it to her.  Then there are times that she wants to be cuddled.  We have tried ignoring her and trying to let her resettle but my 4 year old gets helpful and wakes up and then opens the door and tells her to go and get mommy.
I am expecting our thrid baby in October and right now I am so tired.  I can't imagine trying to deal with 2 waking children at once.  My husband says that he will take care of both girls when the baby comes but I know from experience that he will do it for one or two nights and then demand that it be fixed or just refuse to deal with it.  In addition my second DD is a very deffinate mommies girl.  Dad will do in a pinch but mom is the prefered if I am home.   
How do I sleep train my second before the new baby and how do I do it when she has to share a room with her sister? 
Any help in this would be appreciated.
Thanks

[irish3680]

Honestly, I really think you should reintroduce the nap. Your LO sounds majorly OT, which would cause NW as you described. The majority of 2 year olds are not ready to go without a nap. I would try for a nap at 12/12:30 and limit it so she is awake by 2:00 and then do the 7 pm bedtime and see what happens. 4 months ago she could have been napping too long causing the very late bedtimes or it could have been a phase. Many LO's seem as though they are dropping their naps but then go back to napping. I would give it a shot. Being better rested throughout the day should result in her sleeping better at night too.

[onemodestdiva]

I tried it today.  I will see how tonight goes.  When do they drop naps altogether?  Mt 1st DD did at about 2 1/2 but we didn't have the waking problems.

[fiona1274]

marking my spot have a similar issue and interested in how you get on.

[A_C]

same here marking my spot as wel. DD has been potty training which has in turn affected he sleep. She wakes up in the middle of the night to use the potty.

[fiona1274]

Ditto, I guess we should be happy that they have that much control.

[onemodestdiva]

Well I know that one day doesn't make a habit and I am still going to continue to give naps a try but yesterday was not a great experience.  I really had a hard time getting her to go down for a nap...screaming and kicking but she slept for 1.25 hours.  Then bedtime was really a chore.  I put her down at 7 and she wasn't out until 8 which messed with my other daughters bedtime too...I was expecting some kind of a difference.  But then she was awake at 12:30 and then up for the morning at 5:30.  I made her just climb in bed with me and go back to sleep because I was not in a place where getting up and getting her back to bed was an option.  We are up for good now and it is 6:45...normal wake up time.  
I will try again today and maybe check back after the weekend.

[jellybabe]

Urgh, im right with you! My ds is 2 and still naps once a day, at about 3pm which is late, i know, and goes to bed only at like 9 or 10pm coz he naps too late. But he gets up in the nite/am and comes to our bed and then sleeps till about 8 or 9am! Now with a 3 mth old I am so tired to even be bothered to get up to take him back to his bed (I use to do that while pg, and before that when he first started sleeping in his own bed at 18mths, he would sleep through, even if he woke at nite, he would put himself back to sleep). He wont go with dh and dh cant even attempt to put him to bed coz he wont have any of it!! So we are three sardines crammed in our bed lol. I cant be bothered anymore honestly. I just always remind myself that we will miss the days he spends wanting to sleep and be with us. So we all co-sleep happilly, or sort of, not so happilly when dh gets a few kicks in the back! lol

[onemodestdiva]

Okay so I had hoped that the nap would be the magic cureall.  It hasn't.  The first few nights she got up within an hour of bedtime but then slept through the night.  I thought...we are getting there.  But even though she has recieved naps for the last couple of days we are still getting up in the middle of the night.  Last night it was 2 times and then she woke early.  sigh and all the naps have really done is make bedtime REALLY difficult.  She won't go down at 7 anymore without coming out of bed until almost 8.  I am ready to go back to bedtime at 7 and no naps because it doesn't seem to have made a difference.  Any more ideas?  or am I just back to CIO with the door locked all night?

[riuliani]

Not much advice.  Just wanted to let you know that we also have a permanently nightwaking 2 year old.  Although he has been nightwaking since 6 months, so it is just a part of our life now.  After months of trying to fix it I just decided that is who he is and decided to find the quickest and best method to get him back to sleep when it does happen.  That might be a gameplan for you.

I agree with previous posts though that most 2 year olds still need their naps.  In fact I believe the average age to drop naps is between 3-4 years.  It will definitely create a later bedtime though.  You have to be prepared for that.  For example DS has one nap a day at about noon for 1.5 sometimes 2 hours.  We end up doing bedtime routine at 7:30pm with the aim for us to be out of the room by 8pm.  He does cry and scream at the gated door when we leave, so I play the "I will be right back" game with him.  I start out by getting him distracted with something like a puzzle then I say "Mommy will be back in 5 minutes."  Then I leave and I do go back in five minutes.  I don't want to break his trust.  I do this for quite some time.  I tell him I will be back in 5 minutes but gradually make my "5 minutes" longer and longer.  Until one time I will return and he will be asleep.  So the whole process takes a long time.  Windown starts at 7:30pm and he is usually asleep somewhere around 9pm but the 5 minute game keeps me from being trapped in his room and helps keep him more calm.  Then he wakes in the morning around 7am (with at least one waking usually).

I am also thinking you will appreciate the nap when your little one arrives.  As someone with a 4 week old and a toddler, I love naptime.  Usually I can get their naps to overlap for about an hour of the day.  Sometimes I have a nap (maybe not an option for you) or at least I can sit on the couch and veg or get some phone calls done etc.  It is nice to have the me time.

[onemodestdiva]

Thank you all for the responses.  Ruil I can admire you for just letting your little one get up in the middle of the night and being able to cope that way.  
As I said before I have two girls in one room and no possiblity for it to be any different.  I can issolate my 2 year old in her room for some sleep training if needs be but not for very long since the nursery will be where my 4 year old has to sleep.  And because I have to stagger bedtimes this later bedtime with a nap is just not doable for us especially with school starting.  I can't have the 2 year old up until 9 because that means that my 4 year old is WAY past her bedtime as well and she does sleep well and then sleep in.  Not a good thing when you have to be dressed and ready for preschool at 8:30.
I hope you can all see my problem...I need to figure out something other than live with it before this baby comes and that could be as early as 6 weeks from now.  If you can think of anything you have heard or something that might have worked for you then please let me know.  

[riuliani]

I have to say it took me almost a year to just accept the fact that he is a nightwaker and that is that.  I tried every BW method possible.  I refused to try CIO/CC even though those were really the only two things we hadn't done.  We even saw a sleep specialist and had some testing done.  For some reason his oxygen levels drop periodically throughout the night, which may be why he is waking.  However, there is not a specific reason for it.  So like I said I just decided to find the best way to get him back to sleep as quickly as possible.  Now it takes less than a minute to get him back to sleep most nights.  So far I have found that his wakings don't disturb DD.  However, she will disturb him.

[fiona1274]

So at bedtime your LO screams before she goes to sleep? My LO does then same at bedtime if we put her down alone. We have a 25 month and a 3 and a half year old. They mess about at bedtimes but are usually always asleep but 8.30. For the 1st week of putting them down at the same time it was closer to 10pm. I was freaking but we rode it out. Now I let them play but if theings get too rowdy I go in "try not to talk" and put them back in bed. My older child usually falls asleep 1st. I tell her just to ignore her sister and she drops off then DD2 gives in and goes to sleep.
I try not to talk when I go in although sometimes it doesn't work.
We used to have night wakings which have improved with time. The BGB seemed to help alot and now I sometimes just have to go back in and retuck her. I always tell her she is clever for staying in bed and that seems to have worked. She is spirited so most things with her are a fight but we do seem to be winning this one with time!! Not much help with your new arrival, but if it help I have a DD3 who arrived nearly 6 months ago and things got better instead of worse. Not sure why.

[onemodestdiva]

Yes there was some problems with screaming but it was the 4 year old because her sister wouldn't leave her alone.  The second LO goes to bed fine...it is just keeping her asleep at night.  I am not concerned with bedtime just the night wakings.  The last couple of days we have gone back to no nap in the daytime and she has slept all night.  I am not holding my breath because she also has a little bit of a cold and that might be adding to the sleeping thing but here's just to hoping.
Thanks for the words of encouragement fiona.  I do hope #3 makes it all better...
I realize that CIO is against BW policy but since I have yet to get anything other than live with it I am getting ready to try it.  I guess I will let you all know if you want to know.  I know I may get some censure for it but I am really at wits end as to what to do and I really am not in position where I can just wake 1-3 times a night for one child and then do every 3 hours feedings in the middle of the night too. 

[irish3680]

If the earlier bedtimes with no nap work for you better, then I would make bedtime earlier because she is probably NW due to OT which is often caused by bedtime being too late. If bedtime is currently 7 pm with no nap, I would bump it up to 6:30 and see if it makes a difference.