Taking Forever to Fall Asleep!

[momtonb&ab]

so a two hour nap is great!!!!!!!!  step in the right direction for sure.   sounds like earlier dinner could help.  when she is really hungry like that, consider giving her the protein first (or a yogourt or something) to take the edge off.  my dh often jokes you 'can't eat on an empty stomach' but honestly, if you are really hungry the protein will take teh edge off for her and make mealtime better....and then maybe post-mealtime better.

[newmama12]

How's everyone? Momtothomas...how's he doing? Feeling better now, hopefully?!?!

Let's see...J was back to an hour and 20 minute nap yesterday and was in bed for the night at 6:30 but didn't fall asleep till 7pm and she woke this morning at 7:25am!! Her nose had been running all day yesterday so she probably wasn't feeling all that well. Hopefully, it's just her last eye/canine tooth coming thru and not a cold. We shall see how nap goes today. Going to try and hold it off till about 12:15/12:30 so she can sleep into the mid afternoon and then probably bed at 7pm.

Ok, I know this is nuts but is it possible for her NOT to be tired 5-5.5 hours after her nap yet?? I'm wondering if we push bedtime back to 7/7:15 if she'll fall asleep quicker??? Probably not, but I though I'd throw it out there to see what you ladies think! Now remember she's not a long napper. 2 hours max but mostly 1.5 hours average.

Oh Momtonb&ab, yes, I always do the protein first with meals, otherwise she's a side dish lover (like me) and will completely skip over it to get the other food. Dinner was 5:30 last night b/c she was begging for food at 4:20 and I gave her some fruit to tie her over.

[momtothomas]

Thomas is doing better, but still not 100%...  Pediatrician said that if his ears are still filled with fluid and any red at all at his recheck in 2 weeks (or if he gets another bad ear infection before them), she's sending us to an ENT.

He had a great day yesterday and took a 2 hr 40 minute nap!  Went to sleep around 7:10, but was up off and on all night, whining a little.  Loud enough that it woke me up (via the monitor), but not nearly enough for me to go in there.  Then he was up around 5:10, and slept about 5 minutes, woke up and whined/talked for 5 minutes, repeat repeat repeat until 6:00, at which point he was all the way up.  Ugh!  I was tempted to offer a short 20 minute nap this morning, but I just dread what might happen this afternoon.  So, we're holding out to hopefully 11:30.  If the nap ends up short, at least it's Sunday and I can get him to bed early easier than if it were during the week!

As for your question about if it's possible for her not to be tired after 5-5.5 hours... I'd say ANYTHING is possible!  All kids are different, and her sleep needs will change a little every day, and will definitely not match someone else's kid's sleep habits.  I would think 5.5 hours would be plenty of time to get her tired, though.  Not being a long napper, I'd hesitate to push bedtime too late...  But like I said, maybe she's just at a point where she doesn't need QUITE as much sleep as you think!  The only thing I can say is try it if you want, as long as you're willing to accept whatever happens!

Don't you wish we were psychic or had a magic 8 ball?!?!?  :>

[momtonb&ab]

hey there...  just have a quick minute, but momtothomas, the waking up and fussing and going right back to sleep in the night in our house is 100% indicative of pain in the ears.......(we are an ear infection family here too )  and the way you describe the fussing but not enough to need to go in is exactly what both of mine do when their ears are hurting, it's like they can't get comfortable.  ....  how many ear infections have you had so far? where are you located?  i ask  because i am curious what the standard is for getting them sent to ent....here we have to have 8 ear infections in one year, or 6 in 3 months to get ent referral.

[momtothomas]

Hmm, I was wondering that about his ears.  This is his first ear infection, but it's lasted over a month.  I'm in Georgia, in the Atlanta area.  The pediatrician said she doesn't like the fact that it didn't respond to 2 oral antibiotics, and it took 3 shots of rocephin (antibiotic) to make a dent in it... but that he still has fluid in his ears.  I've talked to some people that said their pediatrician didn't send them until they had about 5 or 6 in a row (back to back), but it sounds like my doctor doesn't subscribe to that theory.  She said that if they have constant fluid backup in their ears it will start to mess up their hearing (possibly permanently), so that's what she wants to avoid.  She also said that the fact it's been this bad and it's practically still summer here worries her as to how he'll do this winter!

I gave him Motrin last night, but it would have worn off by midnight-ish.  The night before last, I gave him ear drops for the pain because he was so fussy, so maybe I should be doing that every night for a few more days...?  Plus, his stellar nap yesterday was with tylenol, which I didn't give him for this nap today.  I didn't think about it, and now he's down, doing his first sleep cycle...  We'll see how he does.  FINGERS CROSSED!

[momtonb&ab]

it sure sounds to me like his ears are giving him pain.  that may also be the cause of your short naps....he can only stay settled for so long and when his sleep cycle ends, instead of going into the next one for a longer nap he is too aware of the discomfort to go back to sleep.

i think it is great that you can get a referal to the ENT so soon.  Do it!  my sister's little guys who are now 7 and 4 both suffered a lot with ears when they were little.  first little guy didn't have tubes, had a heck of a time of it.  the youngest got tubes at 2.5 and she says she should have had it done sooner.  she calls tubes a godsend.  her little guy was struggling with his speech by the time they got the tubes (she was just so nervous of surgery, but it turns out it was no big deal at all) and within days his speech was improving.  i was home visiting then and i saw for myself the improvements it made in him almost right away. 

so, all that to say is that likely your sleep issues are related to ears and not to sleep habits.  that, in some odd way, must be a bit of a relief.  we were at emergency last night with ds who has another ear infection and doc there told us that lately they are hearing more and more that motrin/advil is giving kids more relief from this type of pain so it is good that you are using motrin at night.   i would say give it for a few more nights and then get that referal going, it sure sounds like the fluid on his ear is giving him discomfort.   also, my mom told me not to be afraid to give liquid medication in a syring to kids while they are sleeping.   so if his motrin is to wear off at 2 or 3 and you want to head him off at the pass, sneak in and give him a shot in his sleep.....it works a charm, we have had to do that with antibiotics (they were taking 3 times a day, so one dose was at 11pm) and after the first night, they didn't even stir.

good luck.  sorry about the ears, it is miserable stuff..

newmama12, how are you doing?

[momtothomas]

We have to wait 2 weeks and see what happens before we'd get an ENT referral, but I am definitely relieved that it sounds like my ped office believes in tubes.  Both of my favorite doctors there used the same ENT and each got tubes for one of their kids.  My sister got them, and I found out a few months ago that DH got them when he was 2.  Who knew?!?  Anyway, we'll see what happens over the next two weeks.  I hate having to give him Motrin every night "just in case"...  FYI - He's just getting up from another good nap - 2 hrs 40 min again.  He cried a couple minutes at 1.5 hrs, but settled back down.  Whew!

[newmama12]

Gosh, I really wish I could figure this out. We are STILL having issues with dd taking 45 minutes to fall asleep at night. I just don't understand it. Today was a great day. She slept in till 7:30am. Then napped from 1-3. I figured, ok, if 5-5.5 hours of A post nap is too long then I'll do 4.5 hours. So, I put her in bed at 7:25 and it's 8:05 and she's still moving around up there. Maybe I need to find a different way to get her more relaxed and ready for bed. I don't know. I am out of ideas on what the heck is the issue!

[momtonb&ab]

is she fussing falling asleep?  or is she just taking her time?  do you need to go to her, or is she just settling?  maybe it isn't such a big deal if she is happy to take her time falling asleep.  awake at 7:30, 2 hour nap, then asleep by 8:15 isn't so bad.  she is getting 13+ hours of sleep and for her age is very average.

[newmama12]

Nope, not fussing at all. She seems to just be settling on her own and doesn't need me. It just worries me that some nights it can take her 45 minutes to fall asleep. Makes me wonder if she's not tired enough?? I've tried bedtime time 4-6 hours after nap and it's all the same. The only way she falls asleep immediately is if she hasn't napped all that well during the day (less than 1 hour) or if she's been up for over 6 hours straight.
Oh well. I guess as long as she's content and not upset I shouldn't worry so much about it. Yes, she is seeming to average 13 hours sleep a day. Rarely more. Most of the time it's closer to 12.5 or so.

[momtonb&ab]

she may be a little one who needs that 'me' time.  as much as that is stressful for you, it may make her sleep better to have her own wind down time.  my mother once told me that my sister did that a bit (she's my twin) and to avoid her keeping me awake she used to give her a couple of little board books to look at (there was a night light in the room) and that kept her relaxed until she was ready to fall asleep.   i think if it isn't broken, dont' worry about fixing it.  she is sleeping well and not crying, so that quiet time might be just what she needs right now and will likely grow out of it.  i think the key is that if you keep her up too much logner, she gets overtired, so she must need that little bit of time to herself iykwim?

[becky1969]

I totally agree with PP.  Some children just need longer to wind down, and they need to do it on their own.  The BW toddler book actually talks about this, if you want to take a look there.  Absolutely don't fret about it! Just make sure to put her in bed early enough that even with her long wind down she falls asleep when you think she should.

[newmama12]

Thanks ladies! You're probably right...that might be her way of relaxing (she's not a big snuggler and doesn't quite sit still enough to read books before bed yet) herself to fall asleep.
However, tonight she was asleep within 5 minutes! The trick?!?! 6 hours of A time after a 2.5 hour nap. Since she napped so long and didn't wake till 2:30 we went out to visit my inlaws for dinner and stayed too late. She went to bed at about 8:15 and fell asleep instantly. Now, let's just hope she doesn't wake early.

[momtonb&ab]

if she doesn't wake early, you may have foudn the key.  sounds like you had a good day!  that's great!

[momtothomas]

Thomas had a good nap yesterday as well...  2 hrs 20 minutes (at daycare) that ended at 2:35.  I didn't want to push it, so we started bedtime stuff and aimed for a 7:00 asleep time, but he didn't go to sleep until 7:30.