I am so desperate, can someone help me?

[NiknLily]

If I remember rightly Rachel, the very first time I helped you ooohh, 2 or 3 posts ago now, we had to move Maya morning nap up considerably to stop early wakings.  She was still on 2 naps then, but maybe that is the key, perhaps she does need long A time to get good nap and rid you of early wake ups.  Got my fingers crossed.

Don't forget either if your going to give this a fair go you need to stick it out for at least a week to see if its working, don't be dismayed if it all falls apart after 2-3 days that is often the case, for it then to turn around again and get better again.

Just read your new reply, don't push bedtime to far at all.  In fact I would stick with what you've been doing as changing bedtime up can really through them out.  Give it time to see if its a solid routine before altering things again.

[RACHPEM]

Cheers Nik, appreciate your help again.  About bedtime, I have been putting her down between 6.30-6.45 but last night I took a chance and put her down at 6 as she had such a short nap, do you think 6.30 would be ok? she is still asleep but I think i will wake her at 2.30 as that will be 2.5 hrs. What do you think?

[NiknLily]

Sorry didn't get to reply, Lily woke up and we went to park...
what did you do in the end?

[nike]

Hi Rachael.  Congrats on the 2 hour nap   But I'm confused - you said you were putting her to bed at 6 p.m. bc of shortened nap.  Did I miss a post somewhere??

My gut feeling is after all of the OT and sleep probs in the past, I wouldn't wake her from her nap.  Up to 3 hours is normal and you'll probably find she won't sleep past that anyway.  I'd just let her go.  I know you worry about bedtimes then, but if you keep within 1/2 an hour of normal bedtime then there shouldn't be any dramas.  If she did nap for 3 hours, you could try 6.45 or maybe 7 if you think she's definitely not ready for bed.  But tread carefully   She will let you know anyway if the timing is off.  Are you still watching for sleepy cues?  My DS2 might have slept 12 hours O/N and taken a good nap but if he's had an otherwise big day, he will definitely let me know.  He yawns constantly in the bath and then gets really whingey around story time, even goes as far as pointing down the hallway towards his bedroom.  Does Maya give out any of these signals??  Anyway, I wouldn't be pushing past 7 p.m. bedtime yet.

[RACHPEM]

Ok, here it goes.  Hi Nike, I changed bedtime the night before as she had only slept for 1hr 10 mins which meant her nap ended at 1pm so I moved it forward for 1 night in the hope she would catch up, she did take a 11 hr night but woke at 5am.
Next day dragged nap out to 12 pm by the time she went to sleep  and she did wake at 2.30 even though i was going to wake her she woke herself at that time.
I aimed for bed at 6.30 as she appeared really tired around 5ish tbh, and she woke at 4.15!!!!!
I left her as she was only calling my name and she possibly fell back to sleep around 4.30 til 5.10, needless to say i have been awake since 4.15. 
With regards to tired signs, she just cuddles on my lap and gets a bit more clingy , but then she can just jump back up and run around again so she is pretty hard to read.
i have been confused with bedtimes because i have been altering to super early if nap has finished early so as not to leave a huge gap before bed and these nights have been successful in getting an 11hr night but then does not help me in keeping a regular bedtime that is why i was unsure yesterday, espcially as we were only talking 4hrs from nap to bed.
She def seems to only do 12-12.5 hrs in a 24hrs period with nt and naps combined
Rachael x

[RACHPEM]

By 10am she was already showing tired signs so again i am confused as to what to do, did i also mention she has been a horror to be around, not sure i can wiat til nap time cfor some peace!!!!!

[RACHPEM]

Me again, sorry.  I put Maya down at 11.20 as she was finding it hard to stay awake, however i really had a fight on my hands and it has been like that for 3-4 days now since i have been stretching her A time.  She screams, kicks like someone possessed but i know she is def not UT.  Tbh if i put her down too early she goes down like a dream although does not sleep long and if i time it right we have no probs going down either only when OT so bascially i still cant get it right.
Rachael x

[RACHPEM]

Got past 1hr 20 mark, she did whimper but still asleep.  I love these long naps but I am so blinking lost as what to do, I know i should be cleaning, tydying up etc but i am too scared to move incase she wakes. Just dont tell the hubby, lol!
Rachael x

[NiknLily]

I'd go with another early bedtime tonight even if you get a good nap out of her, don't worry if its only 4hrs from nap end just get her down as close to 6pm as possible.  This seems to result in a good night length, giving a better wake up.  You can still stretch that morning A time tomorrow and hopefully get another good nap then aiming for another early night. 
If you can stabalise her routine by doing this you can then look to shifting things forward. 
No guarantees its gonna work but hey, its a plan right? got to be worth a try!

[RACHPEM]

Maya slept for 2.5hrs again, awake at 2pm and attempted bed at 6.30 as we were out.  I am really no good at this but i would guess she was OT as she did not settle until 7.30 and would not let me out the room where if she is UT she will babble to herself. God only knows what 2mmorw will bring.
fingers crossed.
Rachael x

[RACHPEM]

Woke at 4.15 went in briefly and she went off til 5.20.  She woke up really upset and although i tried to get her back off she was screaming so high pitched and it took me a while to settle her down but still did not go back to sleep. I feel such a failure that i cant work this out by myself but i just cant get it right and i am so confused now i dont know what i should be doing.
Help before i go crazy!

[NiknLily]

Rachel
I think the long A time in am is working in that it is giving a good long nap.  BUT you really need to be getting her to bed by 6pm for this too work, otherwise your going to keep getting her way to OT to go to sleep and get another EW next day.  If you can get a consistant run of good naps then very early bedtimes I think you might find her routine stabalises.  I'm not 100% sure the long morning A time will work all the time but if we can use it to really give long naps and use early beds to get good 11hr+ nights then she will most certainly catch right up on sleep, at this point things will change up again but at least she will not be OT anymore and I'm positive the ew's are caused by OT. 
Chin up hun, your certainly not a failure, if any of us BW's could work this lot out by ourselves then this website wouldn't exsist!
Love Nik x

[RACHPEM]

Thanks hun for your much needed support again.  Maya only slept 1.5 today however she was at her nan's and she never tends to sleep so much there, also she still would not go down until 7.15! I shall keep plodding on,
xxx

[NiknLily]

what time did you try to get her down for bed? after a long morning A time she will need really early bed time, plus if she has had a long morning A time then not napped for a good 2hrs+ you will have to try to get her down even earlier if at all possible.

[nike]

Totally agree on super early bedtime on early-start and short nap days.  DS2, for example, woke early yesterday morning at 6.20 (usually it's past 7).  I had visitors in the morning so was later putting him down for nap, 40 mins later in fact, although he was powering along and holding up really well.  Took a shorter nap, 1.5 hrs (normal 2).  Thought he was doing ok and put him to bed as normal, 6.45.  Well, it took 1.5 hours to get him to sleep   The poor little guy was so OT he was wired.  Fortunately he sleeps in in the morning to make up, but I'll give him an early nap today and early bedtime to compensate for the last 24 hours.  This is the way we get back on track.  We have the odd day like this here or there. 

Looks like you're really going to have to take each day as it comes, Rachael.