Author Topic: 6 month old feeding every 2 hours or less at night!  (Read 5045 times)

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Offline balmerhon

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6 month old feeding every 2 hours or less at night!
« on: September 02, 2008, 09:15:33 am »
Hello, I'm new here and am the serious perpetrator of some accidental parenting. There are so many bad habits we have going on now, I just don't know where to start. So I'll start with the biggest problem which is the frequent night feeding.

But first, some background so you can understand how I've got to where I am and why there may be some problems sorting things out. Jacob was born 12 March so he's just shy of 6 months. From birth he fed every 2 hours (formula). He is a very oral baby and from early days could find his fingers and suck.

When he was 6 weeks old we (DH, myself, baby and 2yr old) had to move in with my inlaws as my husband is in the last few months of finishing his PhD and we needed to save money. We are all moving to the USA this winter (I'm American, he's British). Living with the inlaws presents some problems that make addressing some of the bad habits hard - more on that shortly!

The every 2 hour feeding continued until we tried tanking him up around 4 months. This sort of worked. He would only feed every 3-4 hours which was a huge improvement! At 17 weeks we started him on solids with my HV's approval. Jake is a tank. He's almost 22 pounds and wears clothes for 1 year olds! He's long as well as chunky. But shortly thereafter he went back to feeding every 2 hours at night.

Here's my attempt to answer some of the questions suggested:

How old is your child? 6 months
What’s his/her daily routine? Jake feeds and sleeps on demand. Sadly, ther is no set routine yet.  :-[
What’s nap routine? He rarely sleeps for more than an hour or 2 at a time during the day. usually on the lower side.
How long are naps? as above
What's bedtime routine? Time? see below
Do you bottle or breastfed? bottle
How much? or how long? Jake takes approximately 42-48 ounces in a 24 hour period. According to my HV, that's too much.
How many wakes per night? every 2 hours, sometimes less!
What’s your LO like when waking at night? How long is he/she up? Fussy. If I try to hold him off with a dummy or other gentle distraction it only works for a while before he gears up for a proper scream. I'm now so tuned in to the early signs, that he never gets very far and usually falls back asleep (never wakes properly?) quite easily after taking some milk. He takes anywhere from 1-4 ounces these days at a time.
When you go to him/her is she fussing or crying? Or is it a mantra cry? as above I think. not sure what a mantra cry is.
What have you tried to settle?? yes!!
What do you do for A time and how long is it? We chat, change his nappy, play with toys, interact with big brother, granny, etc.
Are there developmental issues such as teething or milestones? teething, growth spurts?
Have you introduced cereal? Why, how much, and how many times a day? (for LO’s under 6 months) Yes, in addition to all that milk he takes, he also takes 2-3 meals a day (not teaspoons, proper jars!). HV said to do it as he's so big. He didn't start out like this, but that's what he's worked up to.
Do they have a prop? If so what is it? dummy


So here are the other complications: he sleeps with me. This started when he was tiny and we intended to get him off this once he started sleeping better but he never did! I simply don't have the energy to get up and get him out of his cot every time he wakes. It's a chicken and egg problem. Do I address the feeding isses first or the sleeping issues?! To clarify the set up, we have 2 twin beds pushed together (making use of MIL's furniture). He sleeps on one bed, I'm on the other so he's not cuddled next to me, but surely senses my presence.

We have limited space and have been reluctant to risk messing up our toddlers PERFECT routine. But, our bedroom is too small for a cot and our bed. But with Jake waking so often, we don't dare put him in with his brother. Another reason he stays sleeping with me.

Jake has a rocker chair that he spends a lot of time in. He's fed in it and naps in it. I have not tried to put him in a cot for a nap yet for the reasons mentioned above. I could put him on our bed (it's large and he can't roll yet) but that is a bit risky. At night he is downstairs with me until late (usually sleeping from about 8 on). I take him upstairs around 11 and change and feed him. This routine came about at 4 months when we used that 11ish feed as a dream feed. But we had to wake him somewhat as if he were too asleep he would not feed at all.

In short, we've found ourselves doing everything wrong and have no idea what to do. Also bearing in mind there will undoubtedly be serious regression when we move in December.

I'm slowly going insane here!

Can anyone offer any advice?!

Sorry this is so long and rambly. Chalk it up to serious sleep deprivation!

The one bit of good news is that Jake is a real sweetheart. The lack of solid sleep, for some reason, does not seem to affect his temperment and he is almost always good natured. He only really grizzles or cries when hungry or trying to fight sleep.

OK, I'll shut up now! Thanks for reading!
Jacob William 12/3/08 & Samuel Craig 11/4/06

Offline balmerhon

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Re: 6 month old feeding every 2 hours or less at night!
« Reply #1 on: September 02, 2008, 10:47:20 am »
Oh, I forgot to add, I saw a post on here about diluting formula over a long period to wean the baby off night feeds. I started this last night but we had a pretty bad night. He had a much harder time settling though I'm not convinced it was because of the diluted formula as I only diluted it a small amount.

I realized as well that I did not answer the question about what I do to try and settle him when he wakes at night. We've tried the dummy and he uses that a lot but it does not hold off the need to feed. I've tried rocking him, patting him, singing to him, etc etc. It all just holds him off for an hour at most. He never goes back to sleep until I give in and give him some milk.
Jacob William 12/3/08 & Samuel Craig 11/4/06

Offline Bryony

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Re: 6 month old feeding every 2 hours or less at night!
« Reply #2 on: September 02, 2008, 18:49:19 pm »
Hi there and welcome to the BW boards!

Now let's see....  first of all a few more questions for you:

1. Can he get to sleep himself for naps and bedtimes or does he need some help from you (eg dummy, rocking, etc)?

2. I know you say you have no routine - but can you give us a bit of an idea what his day is like in terms of times of feeding and sleeping?  How long is he typically awake in between one nap and the next?

Basically I am wondering if there is some other reason for the NW rather than hunger - eg being overtired or undertired or not knowing how to go to sleep himself - but that he's got used to using the feed as a way of relaxing to go back to sleep.  If he's only taking a few oz sometimes I don't think he's genuinely hungry ...

I am sure we can work this through together

Bryony xx


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Offline cbald1976

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Re: 6 month old feeding every 2 hours or less at night!
« Reply #3 on: September 02, 2008, 18:57:37 pm »
Welcome balmerhon-

Waiting to hear your answers to the prev post, but in general, i think you'll probably need to work on them at the same time.  Meaning as naps are established & longer, he'll eat at more regular intervals & therefore less times during the day.  So, they will work in conjunction with each other.  Situation sounds tough, but we're here to help you through it. 

Char.
Charlotte


Offline balmerhon

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Re: 6 month old feeding every 2 hours or less at night!
« Reply #4 on: September 02, 2008, 19:13:39 pm »
1. Can he get to sleep himself for naps and bedtimes or does he need some help from you (eg dummy, rocking, etc)?

2. I know you say you have no routine - but can you give us a bit of an idea what his day is like in terms of times of feeding and sleeping?  How long is he typically awake in between one nap and the next?

Basically I am wondering if there is some other reason for the NW rather than hunger - eg being overtired or undertired or not knowing how to go to sleep himself - but that he's got used to using the feed as a way of relaxing to go back to sleep.  If he's only taking a few oz sometimes I don't think he's genuinely hungry ...

Hi! Thanks for replying. Let me try to answer as best as I can...



1. Depends. In bed, it's just the feeding followed usually by the dummy which he spits out eventually. In his rocker chair, it is, surprise surprise, rocking. Often with the dummy or just after a bottle.

Yep, big ol' mess here, I know!

2. Let me try this, but it is by no means written in stone.

Gets up around 7-8. Sometimes later. Given how often he feeds at night, if DH can take care of the toddler in the morning, we often stay in bed later so I can catch a few more Zzzzs!

About 4oz after being changed and dressed. Cereal/fruit about an hour later. Then may want the other 2-3 oz left in the bottle.

By 10 or 11 he's usually ready for a nap. Often short - say 30 min to an hour.

Around 12 - 1, lunch of rice and veg with chicken or beans. Followed by more formula.

Another nap, again short sometime around 2-3.

Wakes up for more milk about an hour or so later.

6 ish dinner of fruit or veg and rice.

Milk an hour later.

By 8 or 9 at the latest he falls asleep and stays asleep, for the most part (sometimes wakes up for chatting and milk) until I take him upstairs for a change and last feed around 11 or so. Then the 2 hourly stuff starts.

I guess I really ought to try and write this down. The older boy is in nursery tomorrow so I have more freedom to keep track of things so I can try then. I know I should have a much better idea of this, but with such frequent feeding, never taking a full bottle, adding the solids, I basically feel like I feed him all. the. time. I've just given up keeping an accurate record of what he does but I will do so tomorrow.

My guess is that he doesn't sleep enough during the day but he's so good natured, it's hard to tell. I think I've just trained him to be hungry at night but I just don't know how to break that given the sleep issues as well.

Sorry, I'm rambling again!

Thanks so much!
Jacob William 12/3/08 & Samuel Craig 11/4/06

Offline balmerhon

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Re: 6 month old feeding every 2 hours or less at night!
« Reply #5 on: September 02, 2008, 19:14:44 pm »
Welcome balmerhon-

Waiting to hear your answers to the prev post, but in general, i think you'll probably need to work on them at the same time.  Meaning as naps are established & longer, he'll eat at more regular intervals & therefore less times during the day.  So, they will work in conjunction with each other.  Situation sounds tough, but we're here to help you through it. 

Char.

Thanks, just posted my answers and then saw your post! ;D
Jacob William 12/3/08 & Samuel Craig 11/4/06

Offline Bryony

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Re: 6 month old feeding every 2 hours or less at night!
« Reply #6 on: September 02, 2008, 19:41:53 pm »
Hi there

OK so I think you have two key issues here, which are what I would focus on first:

1. I think you are right that he is not sleeping enough during the day. But if you can write down his times of sleeping and eating tomorrow and get back to us we can have a look.

2. It sounds as though he is either using a dummy or being rocked to get to sleep. My guess is that if he could go to sleep independently he would sleep much better at night. We all come into a light sleep every sleep cycle, and if you don't know how to get yourself back to sleep you will wake up whenever you come into a new sleep cycle.  There are two approaches to tackling this at his age:  1) PU/PD - see the PU/PD board for some info - this is the "cold turkey" approach, or 2) gradual removal - so that you slowly reduce the amount of rocking etc so that he's going to sleep on his own. There are some links to this here:

http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=2361.0

http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=52857.0

What do you think, which are you most comfortable with?

Bryony x


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Offline balmerhon

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Re: 6 month old feeding every 2 hours or less at night!
« Reply #7 on: September 02, 2008, 20:06:13 pm »
I think I'll try the Gentle Removal Plan. The PU/PD approach will only result in crying and I don't want to wake the whole house.

Also, tomorrow, in addition to keeping a record of his day, I *might* try to put him dow for a nap upstairs. With Sammy in nursery, I can focus on this a bit more. That way I can really assess how hard it is for him to settle to sleep on his own.
Jacob William 12/3/08 & Samuel Craig 11/4/06

Offline Bryony

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Re: 6 month old feeding every 2 hours or less at night!
« Reply #8 on: September 03, 2008, 12:25:41 pm »
Sounds good, keep us posted!

xx


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Offline cbald1976

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Re: 6 month old feeding every 2 hours or less at night!
« Reply #9 on: September 03, 2008, 14:01:15 pm »
Hi Balmerhon-  how'd it go with napping downstairs? 
Char.
Charlotte


Offline balmerhon

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Re: 6 month old feeding every 2 hours or less at night!
« Reply #10 on: September 03, 2008, 19:09:55 pm »
Hello. Well, I tried to keep a record, but it's been an out-of-the-ordinary day today, so here's my plan: we leave tomorrow for a short trip to Exeter and London. We're back late on Monday. Until we're back, it seems a bit silly to make a record that could end up being altered by our travels. Equally, it's silly to try anything new with him in strange surroundings. So, I'm going to see how he does for a couple days upon our return and if things go back to how they are now, bump this thread back up.

I did try to put him down in his cot for a bit today but he was having none of it. I may have not read his tired signs correctly. He's been cheerful all day but his appetite is off so I'm not sure what's up.

Thanks for all your replies so far. I have no doubt I'll be back... even if the night feeding stops, I suspect getting him to settle into sleep on his own will be a huge task. The kid has serios Mommy radar! :D

Jacob William 12/3/08 & Samuel Craig 11/4/06

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Re: 6 month old feeding every 2 hours or less at night!
« Reply #11 on: September 04, 2008, 03:20:25 am »
Sounds good.  Enjoy your trip & we'll chat when you get back!
Charlotte


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Re: 6 month old feeding every 2 hours or less at night!
« Reply #12 on: September 04, 2008, 11:22:02 am »
Sounds good!  have a good weekend xx


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Offline balmerhon

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Re: 6 month old feeding every 2 hours or less at night!
« Reply #13 on: September 11, 2008, 15:20:53 pm »
Hello all. I'm back. And I'm feeling completely overwhelmed.  :( The trip really took it out of me and trying to kid-wrangle when in someone else's home was really draining. Especially as their kid is an angel!  ::)

Nothing has really changed. Jake is still feeding ALL. THE. TIME. at night. If anything, it's got worse. He took over 420ml last night between 11 and 7am.  :o This is in addition to a normal day of feeding.

I tried putting him in his cot for a nap yesterday. He chattered for about 15 minutes and then quickly moved into full-on crying so we got him up after trying his dummy and just soothing him didn't work.

Daytime naps are rarely more than 30 minutes to an hour. He's only taking about half a bottle at a time with solids about 3x a day. The only time he goes more than 2 hours without a bottle is when he's in the car. We learned this on our long road trip! We were hoping it would jump-start him onto taking a whole bottle but it only lasted about a day or so before he was back to his old self.

I just don't know what to do first. I need to implement EASY, I need to get his naps sorted and hope that helps the feeding. I need to get him off the props and sleeping in his own bed but I just feel totally incapable of figuring out what to do first. I have a constant headache from lack of sleep and my poor DH is getting totally uncalled for tongue lashings because I have no patience for anything.

*sigh* I don't know if this is even worth a reply. I'm going to go read more of the forum and see if I can get some ideas for how to start implementing things.

Thanks for reading.  :)
Jacob William 12/3/08 & Samuel Craig 11/4/06

Offline Bryony

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Re: 6 month old feeding every 2 hours or less at night!
« Reply #14 on: September 11, 2008, 18:43:11 pm »
HUGS!!  Yes it's hard when you are away - I always come back from a weekend away feeling like I need a holiday!

I think there are two things I would focus on:

1. Independent sleep  - as we discussed before. This is so critical - if he can get to sleep on his own for naps and bedtime, at least most of the time, he will find it much easier to sleep all night.

2. Focus on A times (the time between first waking up and being asleep again) - for his age you would expect the A time to be about 2.25hrs - see http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=64158.msg476652#msg476652 - but of course LOs all vary and it may be that he needs more or less than this. See what seems to work best for him. If he only sleeps 30 mins then he was OT and the A time was too long. If he does 45 mins that can be OT or UT so hard to tell.   If he sleeps a nice long nap then you have it right!  I would keep a log so that you can get a feel for what he needs. The "ideal" A times may also vary throughout the day so bear that in mind - many LOs need a shorter one first thing and a shorter one after the catnap.

I think you also need to decide whether you want to move him into a crib (can you fit one down the side right next to your bed?) or keep him in your bed. The BW view is that LOs sleep better in their own space, but there are also plenty of people on this site who DO co-sleep and manage fine - so this really has to be your decision. If you want to move him into his own crib it will be a big step - I would tackle the independent sleep first

HTH - and hugs again!

xx


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