what should I do after a 1 hour nap?

[debo620]

Hi there, I just went through sleep training with my son --spent about 1 week or so and it was pretty bad,I must admit..
just keep in mind that it does get worse before it will get better. so there were a few days where my son only had like 7hours of sleep at night and maybe 3hrs during the day...but it got better.

I was a bit obsessed with trying to get him to sleep by the perfect A time to get a good nap and thats where I ended up holding to sleep...I had to give this up and just go with it..knwoing that it might take 2hrs of patt-ssh to get him to sleep and that because he was so OT he may only sleep 20-30min...

[dsetd]

Thank you both for the help.  I think last time when I tried it I had an unrealistic expectation of what it would be like.  I guess I had this fantasy that I would pat/shh and she would peacefully drift off to sleep without crying.  Now I'm looking at it like she's not happy when she wakes up at night and it takes me quite a while to get her back to sleep.  Obviously she doesn't like the way things are going now and I can't expect things to get better if I don't change anything.  She may not like pat/shh for a while but I'm sure she will be much happier once she gets used to it and is able to get a good night sleep.  I'm just going to have to keep telling myself that all night tonight!!!

Thankfully my husband is being very supportive and he promised he wouldn't let me quit this time.  I doubt that I will have him take a turn putting her to sleep.  I think it would be harder to listen to her cry and not be the one trying to calm her. 

The one thing I'm still concerned about is mistaking a hungry cry.  We are still working on stretching her feedings to 3 hours.  I know that when I'm putting her to bed she won't be hungry. But what about when she has a short nap? (which I'm sure is normal in the beginning) Is it bad to try to extend the nap and then stop if she is really crying and I think she needs to eat?  If you try to extend a nap do you have to do it for 45 minutes?  I just don't want to do anything that is going to make it harder for her to adjust. 

The last question I have (for now...LOL) is about when I first start.  You said that I can hold her without bouncing and pat/shh until she is almost asleep before I lay her down.  I have tried to hold her without bouncing before and it takes her 20 minutes to stop crying and start to fall asleep.  She is seriously addicted to the bouncing...LOL  I'm expecting that once I lay her down she will get upset and it will take a good amont of time for her to fall asleep.  Do you think I should spend the 20 minutes pat/shh-ing in my arms?  Or should I skip it so that by the time I'm starting calming her in the crib she hasn't already been crying for 20 minutes. 

Thanks again for taking the time to help me sort all of this out.  It is really making me feel more confident that I really can do this!

Sabrina

[brenda2]

she starts crying before you even put her down for naps?  sounds like you need to try to put her down earlier, before she gets to this point.  i would try to stop the bouncing,  her crib isn't going to bounce her in the night.

sleep training isn't going to be without crying, no matter what technioque you use.  as least with pat shh you are with her the whole time and not abandonning her and can help her through it.  it's learning process, she doesn't know how to do it and you have to teach her.  that's all.  the crying is just her voice, she's just saying her mom i don't know how to do it this way.  it may take her  a while to learn but she will.

if she is waking early for a nap i really doubt she's hungry.  even a lot of newborns don't need to eat every 2 hours.

you don't have to try pu/pd for 45 min, you can stop and take her out and try to distract her until her next feed.  this gets easier as they get a bit older...

when stretching her feeds out to 3 hours you can do it slowly, maybe aim for at least 2.75 hours, and don't feed before then.  15 min isn't going to make or break it.  looking at your routine you are mostly feeding every 2.5 to 3 hours.

[dsetd]

Sorry if I was confusing.  If I bounce her to sleep for naps she doesn't cry.  She cries for naps if I hold her and shh/pat without bouncing.

When she wakes up anytime between 7 pm and midnight she cries and is very restless no matter what I do.

My husband has to work late tonight so I'm on my own!  I'm going to put my boys to bed in 30 minutes and then the next time I put Katie down to sleep it will be in the crib with pat/shh. 

Wish me luck!!!

Sabrina

[debo620]

Sabrina, good luck, you guys can do it.
did she nap well today?

[brenda2]

good luck!!!

i really think cold turkey no bouncing etc is the way to go, but if you are uncomfortable with that you could do a gentle removal type of plan where you kind of slow your bouncing down for the next nap then even slower/less frequently in a few days until you can do it without bouncing.  it is slower to get results with this but may be less stressful if you're worried about all the crying.

[dsetd]

Well last night was terrible!!!

She didn't nap well yesterday so maybe that was part of it.  We started late, at 8:20.

I pat/shh-ed from 8:20 unil 9:15 she was no where near sleep so I nursed her.
Back in crib at 9:25 asleep at 9:45
Woke at 10:13 I tried to resettle her until 11:00 but she was still up.
I fed her again and she was back in her crib at 11:10.
Asleep at 11:55 and woke 5 minutes later even though I was still doing pat/shh
Tried to resettle until 1:30 and she really started freaking out.
I decided to feed her again and we both fell asleep on the couch.

So from 8:20 until 1:30 she slept for 35 minutes!!!

We slept in my bed the rest of the night and she woke twice to eat but went right back to sleep.

I really don't want to give up by I'm really starting to doubt if this will really work for us.  Most of the time when I rolled her on her side and started patting she was arching her back and fighting me.  She would seem really frustrated.  Sometimes when she was on her back  she seemed to be doing a mantra cry and she was moving her head from side to side.  She would start to calm down but then start right back up.  I kept thinking that if I could have been patting her at that point she might have settled.  But everytime I had her on her side she just seemed to be fighting me.  But both times she actually fell asleep it was on her side while I was patting and she was sucking her thumb.

Ugh, it's time to put her down for her first nap!  Maybe she will be so tired from last night she won't have enough energy to fight me so bad.

Sabrina

[debo620]

Sabrina, that sounds about how our first few days were. it will get better. I dont think you should be feeding that frequently especially if feeding to sleep is the old prop.

so for now, do winddown, put her in her crib and leave or hide. return to help her with p/s when she starts to have a true cry.

[dsetd]

Thanks for the encouragement. Her first nap went much better than last night.  I layed her down at 9:40.  She did a mantra type cry for 8 or 9 minutes.  I just had my hand on her belly and the sound machine was on.  Then she seemed like she was ready to fall asleep so I rolled her on her side and patted.  She was asleep 10 minutes after I layed her down!!!  She woke up 30 minutes later but I got her back to sleep in 2 minutes.  She woke again 30 minutes later even though I was still with her.  But again I got her back to sleep in just a couple minutes and she slept for another 40 minutes!  Wow now that I typed all that out I'm even more impressed with how well she did!

I think you are right about last night.  I think I was trying to help her too much and that I was really making it harder for her to settle.  She seemed to do much better for her nap when I left her alone more.  Apparently I have a very independent little girl on my hands...LOL

The biggest problem she had was that her thumb wasn't cooperating with her.  She needs to be sucking it while she falls asleep.  But then it would slip out and she would have such a hard time getting it back in.  I'm hoping she will get the hang of it quickly because it does seem to be important to her. 

Hopefully nap 2 will go this well again!

Sabrina

[debo620]

yeh! good job!

[dsetd]

So far so good with nap #2...

It took her 30 minutes to fall asleep this time.  I'm very confused about her crying though.  It didn't sound like a mantra cry but it definitely wasn't a panic cry either.  Since it wasn't a mantra cry I was trying to pat her but she was fighting me.  After about 20 minutes she started to cry harder and then she let me pat her and she fell asleep. 

I kept patting but she kept waking up after a few minutes and crying again.  I was able to get her back to sleep rather quickly though.  The last time I got her to sleep I stopped patting right when she was asleep but I left my hand on her.  She stayed asleep that time.  I'm not sure if it was a coincidence or not but maybe the patting was stimulating to her after she was asleep? 

Do you think I should have left her alone in the beginning even though she was crying?  Maybe I should just leave my hand on her and wait for a full blown hard cry before I start the patting.  I guess I'm confused because I feel like I am getting in her way, yet she still needs the patting to be able to "let go" and actually fall asleep. 

I think everything would be much easier for her if she was able to get her thumb in her mouth faster.  She gets so frustrated when it won't do what she wants!  When she finally fell asleep she had her thumb in her mouth and her other hand holding it in so it wouldn't fall out!

She has been sleeping for 45 minutes now!!!

Thanks so much for your help.

Sabrina

Ahh, she just woke up!

[brenda2]

well, so you've had some success...all this was without bouncing?  that's pretty good then.  it will take her a while to catch on.

i agree with deb that don't feed her that often since you are trying to break the prop.

moving head side to side and mantra crying is a self settling behaviour.   my Lo did that all the time when going to sleep - she had quite the bald spot because of it!  if doing this then leave her because by interfering with patting you can make it harder for her - maybe too stimulating if she has her own way of winding down.  if she likes to be on her back and mover her head side to side then experiment with patting or rubbing her tummy.  but if she needs to suck her thumb sometimes it's easier if they are propped on their sides because then they can control the thumb into mouth better.  experiment with which position she likes best.  you can use sleep positioners like towel rolls or wedges to keep her on her side.  or swaddle with hand near face so she can control the thumb into mouth.  apparantly the aussie swaddle is good for this but i could never master it !

[dsetd]

Yes, we have gone cold turkey with the bouncing!!!

You are both right that I fed her too much last night.  I was remembering that I read if they don't fall asleep after 45 minutes to feed them because they would be hungry from the crying.  Now I realize that was for during the day because it would be close to feed time anyways.

I think last night went so badly because that is usually the most difficult part of our day anyway.  I'm sure tonight will be hard too but I'm prepared and I'm not going to quit!

She woke after 45 minutes but I was able to resettle her quickly!  She has been sleeping for another 40 minutes!  And it has already been 3 hours since she last ate!

My husband keeps telling me not to get too excited because it will probably get harder.  I'm just so relieved that today is going so much better than last night!

I think your right and I just need to keep experimenting to find out what will work best for her.  We have only just begun, so I guess it's normal that I don't have it all figured out just yet.

Well it has actually been 3 hours 20 minutes since she ate.  I guess I should wake her?

Thanks again,

Sabrina

[debo620]

you guys are doing great Sabrina!!

[dsetd]

Thanks again for the encouragement!!!

If you don't mind a have a few more questions...

Our routine has really gotten off track today and I'm not sure what to do about bedtime.  Due to our rough night we woke up at 8:15 this morning, an hour later than usual.  This is what today has looked like...

E/A  8:15
S     9:40-11:25 (she woke twice during this time)

E/A  11:25
S     1:10 - 2:50 (she woke once)

E/A  2:50
S     4:05 (she is still sleeping now and it's 5:05!!!)

My question is if I should still give her a catnap which means we would have a 9:00 bedtime?  Or should I skip it and aim for a 7:15 bedtime, even though this would only be a 11 hour day?  She always had a hard time between 7:00 and midnight so I'm not sure which way to go.

Also when I'm nursing her in the middle of the night if she falls asleep do I have to wake her before I put her down?

She's waking up, I better run.

Sabrina