Author Topic: NW from UT?  (Read 1356 times)

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Offline anna*

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NW from UT?
« on: September 21, 2008, 08:50:17 am »
I know all babies are different but I'm wondering anyone can tell me what nightwakings from undertiredness might typically look like? I'm still getting random NWs from Stanley (just turned 10 months) maybe half the nights. He's not hungry, and not happy about being told to go back to sleep, and takes AGES to go back to sleep (also lots of SA in there too).

It seems that on days when he has short naps (2-2.5hrs total) and goes to bed earlier (6.30-6.45) he tends to sleep better than on 'good' nap days (2 x 1.5hrs, 7pm bedtime). So I'm wondering about shortening the morning nap - keeping it to 1 hour - but of course I don't want to make a rod for my own back by inviting overtiredness.

In the meantime I'm posting on the PUPD board to try and get some guidance on WI WO.

thanks ladies

anna
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Offline *Nicola*

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Re: NW from UT?
« Reply #1 on: September 21, 2008, 10:24:55 am »
((Hugs)) Anna,

For us UT NW's are

- Awake for long periods - often as long as her A times during the day - which is immediately telling
- Wakes happy/playing but gets fussy
- Won't go back to sleep
- Feeding/shing etc doesn't send her back to sleep

I think if you have SA mixed in there you will prob see the long wakings with no luck settling him back down but also lots of crying if you are not in there with him.

Around 10 months we reduced the naps to around 2.5 hours otherwise we got EWs.  You could try 2.5 hour nap day with early beds for 3-5 days consistently and see if that makes any difference to the NW's. Team that with WI/WO for SA and see how you get on :)

Sorry you are still having a rough time at nights, hope we can help you work this out x

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Offline Bryony

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Re: NW from UT?
« Reply #2 on: September 21, 2008, 11:10:54 am »
For us UT NW's are

- Awake for long periods - often as long as her A times during the day - which is immediately telling
- Wakes happy/playing but gets fussy
- Won't go back to sleep
- Feeding/shing etc doesn't send her back to sleep

Same for us!

xx


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Offline anna*

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Re: NW from UT?
« Reply #3 on: September 22, 2008, 07:13:56 am »
Thank you Nicola and Bryony. I'm really not sure. He's definitely not waking happy, but taking usually 2 hours to get back to sleep (although that is actually 2 hours for me to get back to bed - he's settled after prob 1.5 hrs but takes a while to get properly off to sleep). He's now started waking earlier too (6am, usually he sleeps pretty reliably to 6.45 or 7). I am shattered, and feeling really disheartened. Saturday and Sunday we have tried shorter naps and earlier bedtime, but I've still been up with him both nights, and the night wakings seem to be becoming more frequent. (4 nights in a row - it used to be just a couple of nights a week).

Sorry to go on. I know there's not really any solution except to just maybe wait it out and try and stay patient and be consistent. I'm just venting here really. I get so angry and frustrated in the middle of the night, and feel really helpless because I don't have any idea for a strategy so when I hear him in the middle of the night my heart just sinks. The two hours are always two hours, I've been at this for weeks and there doesn't seem to be any improvement. I'm trying to understand WI WO and GW, but it just seems beyond me at present.

Anyway, sorry for the ramble, thank you for listening.

a
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Offline anna*

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Re: NW from UT?
« Reply #4 on: September 22, 2008, 08:23:37 am »
 :-[ Sorry about that little tantrum. I feel embarrassed now! I'm just tired, really.  :-*

anna
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Offline *Nicola*

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Re: NW from UT?
« Reply #5 on: September 22, 2008, 10:08:04 am »
Don't feel embarrassed, we've all been there during the sleepless nights.  Honestly.

Do you want to post your routine, any props, NW's, what he is doing at NW's, what you do at NW's, day feeds, night feeds etc.  Anything and everything. 

Hopefully we can all put our heads together and see if we can come up with a plan. I do think you and Stan need some consistency and some sort of 'plan' in your head for these NW's

x
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Offline anna*

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Re: NW from UT?
« Reply #6 on: September 22, 2008, 10:12:09 am »
Sorry to be back again. Can you tell I'm feeling desperate?

Stan's down for his morning nap and I'm letting him sleep. He woke up at 6, possibly dropped off again but was awake for the day by 6.30. He lasted til 10 for his morning nap (the usual time). But if I cut the nap short, he'll need his afternoon nap earlier (say 1.30 or 2) then he'll be up from that by 3.30 and that will mean 3.5 hours A time before bed. Plus I want to take him swimming today so he'll be really tired for his afternoon nap even if I don't cut the morning one short. I know I said that an earlier bedtime was better, but, that doesn't always seem to be the case and I don't want to end up on a 6.30-6.30 night. Although at this point anything which doesn't involve 2 hours awake in the middle of the night sounds good.

So today our routine will be
Wake and BF 6.30
Breakfast 7.30
S 10 - 11.30
A 11.30
lunch 12.30
BF 1.30
S 2.30 - 4
A 4
tea 5
bath 6.15
BF 6.30
bed 6.45 for sleep at 7

NW some time between 11.30 and 1.30ish.

That's still 3 hours daytime sleep BUT he started the day half an hour earlier. Does that make sense?
 This is basically the 'old' routine (although starting at 7) that we've been on for a few weeks now and was working quite well most of the time.

He goes to sleep independently for naps and at bedtime. No props, he has a 'lovey' which he sucks on to comfort himself (except when he doesn't want to, when he hurls poor Robert (the rabbit) up and down the cot  ::) ).

He's just learned to crawl. When he wakes in the night, he is not usually sitting or crawling, just lying on his back crying. As I'm trying to settle him he'll often be rolling around and pulling himself up to crawling position, but I just lie him back down. No signs of teething at present, although I sometimes do give Calpol in the night just to rule out pain.

At the NW I lie and listen to him until I am sure he is not going back to sleep and the crying is escalating. I go in and he is on his back, crying, he quietens down as soon as I go into the room but starts crying very upset as soon as he realises I'm not getting him up. I try to calm him down by giving him his rabbit, turn him on his side and rub his back. This will usually calm him down but it doesn't last, he soon rolls back onto his back and starts crying again. Repeat 100 times. Last night I tried WI WO for an hour before giving up and getting him out of his cot. As soon as he is on my lap he calms down and zones out (not asleep, but very relaxed and still). I gave him cuddles for a few mins then lay him down in his cot (cries again) and then stayed right by the cot until he was fully asleep and not looking around to check on me any more.

I've updating this to give more detail. THank you Nicola!
« Last Edit: September 22, 2008, 10:21:28 am by annafofana »





Offline *Nicola*

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Re: NW from UT?
« Reply #7 on: September 22, 2008, 10:42:15 am »
Anna,

His routine looks fine to me :) You could try to limit that morning nap and see if it makes a difference to the NW's, maybe by cutting it back to one hour only and then going for a slightly earlier bedtime.

At the NW I lie and listen to him until I am sure he is not going back to sleep and the crying is escalating. I go in and he is on his back, crying, he quietens down as soon as I go into the room but starts crying very upset as soon as he realises I'm not getting him up. I try to calm him down by giving him his rabbit, turn him on his side and rub his back. This will usually calm him down but it doesn't last, he soon rolls back onto his back and starts crying again. Repeat 100 times. Last night I tried WI WO for an hour before giving up and getting him out of his cot. As soon as he is on my lap he calms down and zones out (not asleep, but very relaxed and still). I gave him cuddles for a few mins then lay him down in his cot (cries again) and then stayed right by the cot until he was fully asleep and not looking around to check on me any more.

OK, I wonder if this is your problem here.  Do you think you have become a bit of a night prop for him?  It sounds to me like he is crying/fussing UNTIL you take him out of the cot and then he settles down and falls asleep after hugs etc.  So no matter what you are doing eg shing, patting, rubbing back, WI/WO etc he is holding out for you to pick him up. 

Is this what is happening? If so, then I think we need to come up with a plan of action which you will be consistent with on each NW from now on.  Whatever the plan is it will involve no picking up, so that he learns that when he wakes at night you don't pick him up. 

What do you think x

Have you seen this post ... http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=133167.0
« Last Edit: September 22, 2008, 10:48:02 am by *Nicola* »
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A baby is born from the dreams of your heart, and becomes the love of your life.



Offline anna*

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Re: NW from UT?
« Reply #8 on: September 22, 2008, 12:10:51 pm »
I think you're right and that I am now the night prop. I can't seem to make sense of how to do Gradual Withdrawal as well as WI WO, so I will just have to try again to persist with WI WO tonight. I have never managed to make it work so I don't feel very confident. After an hour of it last night he wasn't even pausing to try and calm himself while he was crying. But I guess I will just try again.

Thanks Nicola

anna
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Offline *Nicola*

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Re: NW from UT?
« Reply #9 on: September 22, 2008, 15:11:38 pm »
Anna ..,

just replied on your PU/PD thread x
Mummy to 2 beautiful kiddies. 

A baby is born from the dreams of your heart, and becomes the love of your life.