BF baby with cold refuses his usual bottle - How to get him back on track?

[lynners]

Hi Irina,

Thanks for your post.  You do get around on these boards!!!!  (as do I clearly

We have a small en suite with shower that I could use without the fan to get it really steamy.  Might try with young Lucas in his bouncer tomorrow and see what happens.

Thanks and all the best to you and Anya.

Hi Paula,

I'd been using the Karval atomizer thing that you plug in.  The first night we used it the smell was really strong and it's supposed to last for three days.  Neither my husband nor I have been able to smell it since the first day but don't know if we've just got used to it or it's not working.  Hee hee! It was the third day today so I put in a new refill and again I can't really smell it! So no idea if it's working or not but it certainly hasn't got rid of Lo's blocked nose yet....maybe should try the drops.

And yes we're up to Day 14 of refusal - not looking great!  Am definitely starting to consider cold turkey but would need to be on a weekend for husband to do.  We've got an appointment at a pediatric obstetrician's next Monday though who said they'd see if they could help treat him to get him back on the bottle.  No idea if it could work but seems a bit mean to cold turkey this weekend if we've got the appointment on Monday.  Can I really last until the following weekend to go the cold turkey route though??  As well as this refusal of the bottle giving me no flexibility or free time, it's not as if the breast feeds we have are great.  We've had numerous BFing problems, so there's often crying during my BF's, after refusing the bottle

Hmmmm.....

[* Paula *]

We found the drops a lot better than the plugs (also cheaper if I can remember)

Does you|o have reflux at all or showing any signs of reflux?

[lynners]

Thanks paula will definitely try the drops.  Don't think he has re-
flux.  Think whith the BF it always seems like his happy to feed when the milk is flowing quickly at the beginning but struggles as it get toward the hindmilk and then pulls off crying and I have to put him on the other breast and try and coax him a bit back abd forwads.  i've seen so many people about my BF and nothing's ever really helped.  Bizarrely he always feeds well at his 11.00 DF.

Anyway thanks for your help.  Keep your fingers crossed for me.  his grandma is coming over and I'm going to get her to try and bottle feed him.  Who knows maybe a different person might work.

[lynners]

Hi Paula,

Just read my previous post.  Sorry for all the typing mistakes.  Not a great sleep last night.

Anyway the update for today is that good old Grandma came over and tried to bottle feed him.  There was a whole lot of coaxing involved but she did manage to get him to take 30ml over about half an hour - patient lady (and he showed no signs of being in pain form the cold/teething.  In fact he was playing with the teat quite a lot instead of drinking).  This refusal situation has definitely turned into a game/habit.  It felt good to at least be able to establish that.  There's no doubt in my mind.

After all her hard work at the 11am feed, we decided that we had to keep it going and it was time to go cold turkey.  She fed him at 3pm too and again got about 30ml in half hour.....Hmmm certainly not good feeds but a start.

Meanwhile I've kept adding as much milk as possible to his solids as he's definitely liking those at least.  For the 7pm feed which is his usual bottle feed my DH fed him and managed about 40ml in 20 minutes but he began crying a lot (OT - LO that is not DH!! (lol) so we decided to put him to bed and if he wakes up later we'll bottle feed again.

So cross your fingers for us.  We've got a DF at 11.00 and will try bottle again.  We've got to keep this going until it's cracked.  Tomorrow will be harder because it will be me that will have to bottle feed him and he's going to scream for boob milk   Really wish we'd started this on the weekend, but we had to keep going after Grandma.

If he does start taking good amounts at every feed with the bottle how long do you think we should continue just bottle until adding some breast feeds back in? Feeling quite sore and not loving the pumping game.  Would you add breastfeeds back slowly or altogether?  I plan to have 3 breastfeeds and 2 bottle - alternating between the two.

Thanks 

[* Paula *]

How have things been going?

Personally if you are looking at doing 2 bottle feeds and 3 breastfeeds, I would put them back in all together and see how he does.

[lynners]

Hi Paula,

Sorry I hadn't got back to you.  I didn't know the website was back up.  Hoorah!!!

Bottle feeding with my LO is now officially back on track!  We did cold turkey and after a pretty hellish two days he was drinking from the bottle again

We reintroduced the breastfeeds after a few days and all went well for about a week when he started refusing the bottle again   We went straight to cold turkey again and it took about a day this time for him to take the bottle.

We are now back to both BF's and bottles and all is well.

Cold turkey was hard but definitely effective.  It also had an added positive side effect.  On the first night we went cold turkey my husband gave my DS his DF.  He's used to having a BF at this time and usually manages to stay pretty much asleep.  When he was given a bottle instead he went absolutely ballistic and we couldn't calm him down for over an hour.  We decided that the next night, rather than attempting to give him a bottle DF we would wait until he woke up for a feed....well he never did.  He instead slept through until his normal waking time!

So we've lost the DF and get about 11 hours night time sleep out of him...all good!!!

Actually I wonder if you could give me some advice on sippy cups too.

I'd been trying for quite some time to get my DS to use a Tommee Tippee cup quite unsuccessfully.  About a week ago I thought I'd just take off the the lid and spout and see what he thought of just drinking from the cup.  Well he really responded to it and loved sipping the water.  So every meal time we keep practising with the cup.

The only thing is that he doesn't usually try to hold it himself, but will sip from it if i put it to his mouth.  If I try to put his hands around the handles he pulls them away and doesn't like it.

The times he does try and hold/grab the cup he tends to grab for the rim and spill it everywhere.

After he'd done this a few times I find myself trying to make sure he doesn't spill it everywhere.  Do you think though that I should just let him as it's the only way he'll learn? (he's only 7 months though)

Do you think too that me generally holding the cup for him will encourage a habit, or do you think he'll just try and grab the handles when he's ready ?(like he learnt to put his hands around the bottle when he was ready)

Thanks for your help.

[* Paula *]

That is fantastic news    I am so pleased that things are going so well and dropping the DF to, that is really great.

With regards to the cup, I would not worry too much about it at all.  My DD drinks from a sippy and she refused to drink unless I was holding it then, one day she picked it up and started drinking from it.

I don't think you are holding him back at all with you holding the cup.  When he is older, he will probably start holding it himself.  You could always just try putting a drop in the cup and teaching him that way perhaps when you are playing or something and see how it goes.

[lynners]

Hi Paula,

Hope you're well.  All still going well with mixed feeding thanks, but sippy cup not so good.  For about a week or so after I last spoke to you I continued to try and use the 'open top' Tommee Tippee cup.  I used it with him at most meals so he could practice 2 or 3 times a day.  He decided that the cup was a toy though and went from at least letting me pour the water into his mouth to not letting it come anywhere near his mouth and instead grabbing the cup handle and bashing it like a toy, with water going everywhere.

I decided that maybe an open cup was going to be a lot harder work than a closed one.  Anyway I thought I'd just try a 'sippy spout' on his Avent bottle as it had no handles (without the valve too so less like the bottle sucking action)  The first time he used it he loved it and held it on his own and took the water himself.  Hoorah   Now though he's gone back to not sipping it himself and not letting me near his mouth with it and trying to hold it by the spout so he can fling it around.

I'm really not sure which 'cup' type to stick with and whether I should just keep going.  It's starting to feel a bit like a battle.  Any top tips would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks so much.

[* Paula *]

That is great news about the mixed feedings.  I am pleased that things are going so well.

I would chose a cup and stick with it, i.e. the Avent spout one.  The cup is new to them, so would not worry too much at this stage.  Just persist, keep on offering and don't get disheartened when he reufses it.  He will soon get the hang of it.

I sooo know what you mean about taking the cups and banging them on the table.  My DD is 1 and she does that with her cup too.  She will drink it and then bang it on the table  I have the dents and chips in my wooden table to proove it Cheeky Monkey.

Keep us posted on how you get on 

[lynners]

Thanks so much for your support.   I shall carry on with the Avent one and see how we go.

All the best to you.

[* Paula *]

Any time hun 

Keep us posted on how you get on.

[lynners]

Hi Paula,

Hope you're well.  Just thought I'd let you know that LO is doing pretty well with his sippy cup.    Thanks for your advice.  It seems to have worked well using the sippy spout on the Avent bottle.  I think because it doesn't have handles it definitely helps him not think of it as a toy.  Sticking to the same cup and using it as much as possible is definitely the key, as you (and Tracy) suggested.

I still mainly have to hold the bottle for him, but he does also try to hold it himself although doesn't know to lift it high enough yet.  I'm sure that will come in time.

The only thing I'm not sure how to deal with is that often when he sips the water he spits at least some of it back out.  I have taken the valve out of the spout so that it is free flowing as my HV recommended this saying that with the valve it was pretty much the same as a bottle and he would not be learning how to sip properly.  I'm not sure whether because it's free flowing, or perhaps because I'm holding it too long at his lips, he is maybe getting too much water and his reaction is to just spit it out.  Sometimes when he does it though it looks like it's more of a game and if so I'm not sure whether I should start telling him no or whether at this stage I should be grateful he's at least taking water from it.  I don't want to put him off using it at all if I tell him off for spitting water out.

Any ideas?

[* Paula *]

Great news that the sippy is going so well.

My DD used to do the same thing.  We also have one without the valve, and I think it is cause it comes out a bit fast and their only reaction is to spit it out.

My DD now takes it no problems without spitting any out.  So it will get better.

He could be doing it for a reaction though, so when he does spit it out, I would not say anything, just wipe it up and leave it at that.  If it is a game, he will soon stop doing it.

[lynners]

Thanks Paula - good advice.  Yes will ignore spitting just wipe it off.

[* Paula *]

Keep us posted